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controversial approach to improving social skills

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Zen
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25 Apr 2011, 11:56 am

If it's what you want and it works for you, then great. I'm happy that you're happy with your results. Your examples seem reasonable enough.

But the reasons for my disinterest in popularity are not just because I lack the social skills. I don't doubt that it's possible to learn a lot of the skills if you put your mind to it. But if your problem is that your speech processing and sensory difficulties get in the way of communication, there are situations where you just can't avoid that. Autism isn't just not knowing how to socialize.

For myself, the idea alone of spending thousands of hours working on learning this stuff makes me want to crawl into bed.



Sallamandrina
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25 Apr 2011, 12:26 pm

guywithAS wrote:
when your social interactions are constantly going extremely well, they are not very tiring. i suspect many of the symptoms of the autism spectrum are far less fixed than people realize.

It's not so simple. Years of experience made my interactions go very smoothly which doesn't make them less boring for me except for those rare occasions when I meet someone who doesn't measure their success and value through other people's eyes.

No reflection on you, if that's what you want and it makes you happy I wish you the best and I'm glad you found something that works.


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Moog
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25 Apr 2011, 1:03 pm

Zen wrote:
If it's what you want and it works for you, then great. I'm happy that you're happy with your results. Your examples seem reasonable enough.

But the reasons for my disinterest in popularity are not just because I lack the social skills. I don't doubt that it's possible to learn a lot of the skills if you put your mind to it. But if your problem is that your speech processing and sensory difficulties get in the way of communication, there are situations where you just can't avoid that. Autism isn't just not knowing how to socialize.

For myself, the idea alone of spending thousands of hours working on learning this stuff makes me want to crawl into bed.


My social skills aren't that bad anymore. Nowadays I notice it's more that I have terrible time separating words from noise, even if the noise is just clouds of reverb. There are so few times and places I can have a distraction free conversation. I think that's what tires me out, the extra attention I have to use to discern communication from environment.


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guywithAS
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25 Apr 2011, 3:27 pm

nice. so lets make sure when we talk about "interactions going well" or "not bad social skills" that we're on the same page.

i'm assuming:
- you do fine in your job, as well as being a good manager for people who work for you
- you have a close circle of 5-10 friends, as well as an extended circle
- you are well thought of in your community
- you rarely have meltdowns if ever
- your relationship with your family is strong

because this is basically what has happened (or is happening) for me in the 18 months since i learned this.

those of us on the autism spectrum have trouble developing theory of mind. and todays adults on the autism spectrum have effectively been abandoned, in favor of autism services and research focusing intervention on children as they're growing up.

i believe this approach is possibly the only way for adults to develop theory of mind.



wavefreak58
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25 Apr 2011, 3:45 pm

guywithAS wrote:
nice. so lets make sure when we talk about "interactions going well" or "not bad social skills" that we're on the same page.

i'm assuming:
- you do fine in your job, as well as being a good manager for people who work for you
- you have a close circle of 5-10 friends, as well as an extended circle
- you are well thought of in your community
- you rarely have meltdowns if ever
- your relationship with your family is strong

because this is basically what has happened (or is happening) for me in the 18 months since i learned this.


Great that it is working for you.


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those of us on the autism spectrum have trouble developing theory of mind. and todays adults on the autism spectrum have effectively been abandoned, in favor of autism services and research focusing intervention on children as they're growing up.

i believe this approach is possibly the only way for adults to develop theory of mind.


You lose me when you say "possibly the only way". It is easy to find high functioning autistics that have not used "The Game" as their underlying paradigm for Theory of Mind improvement. It is also easy to find autistics that are content with their Theory of Mind and feel no compulsion to change it.

Additionally, you are using specific measures of success - measures that are heavily bound to the culture you happen to live in. If you feel better off because you have found ways to meet these culturally bound expectations, then that's cool. Keep on keepin' on. But don't expect others to jump aboard that particular train.


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paddy26
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25 Apr 2011, 4:23 pm

I find it really interesting that one of the acronyms them guys use is ASD. Its almost as if they're are subconsciously referring to autistic spectrum disorder. I've no problem with any of that though.



Moog
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25 Apr 2011, 4:25 pm

paddy26 wrote:
I find it really interesting that one of the acronyms them guys use is ASD. Its almost as if they're are subconsciously referring to autistic spectrum disorder. I've no problem with any of that though.


What does ASD refer to in PUA land?


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wavefreak58
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25 Apr 2011, 4:38 pm

guywithAS wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
I have no use for popularity. It takes time and energy just to deal with the attention


when your social interactions are constantly going extremely well, they are not very tiring. i suspect many of the symptoms of the autism spectrum are far less fixed than people realize.


Time and energy are time and energy. Even if you enjoy what you are doing, time and energy are involved. I find spending time and energy on social pursuits less satisfying than other things. I don't feel particularly pained by "unpopularity" so why would I pursue its opposite?


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paddy26
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25 Apr 2011, 4:38 pm

well I'm no player or anything but it stand for anti slut defense. They say its where a girl likes you but doesn't want to be perceived as a "slut" so wouldn't act on it.



Moog
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25 Apr 2011, 4:48 pm

paddy26 wrote:
well I'm no player or anything but it stand for anti slut defense. They say its where a girl likes you but doesn't want to be perceived as a "slut" so wouldn't act on it.


I think I've just been provided with a window into why people don't like these books.


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anneurysm
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25 Apr 2011, 5:12 pm

guywithAS wrote:
nice. so lets make sure when we talk about "interactions going well" or "not bad social skills" that we're on the same page.

i'm assuming:
- you do fine in your job, as well as being a good manager for people who work for you
- you have a close circle of 5-10 friends, as well as an extended circle
- you are well thought of in your community
- you rarely have meltdowns if ever
- your relationship with your family is strong

because this is basically what has happened (or is happening) for me in the 18 months since i learned this.

those of us on the autism spectrum have trouble developing theory of mind. and todays adults on the autism spectrum have effectively been abandoned, in favor of autism services and research focusing intervention on children as they're growing up.

i believe this approach is possibly the only way for adults to develop theory of mind.


It's not the only way though...I have AS and have pretty good theory of mind skills based on learning social skills trough exposure and experience with them. There are many ways adults on the spectrum can learn these skills...and they won't necessarily be 'cured' either after these behviours are learned. Your skills can be adapted though...my interactions go well and I have many friends, but my mind will always be wired with AS characteristsics no matter how great my interactions go.


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Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term therapists - that I am an anxious and highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder.

My diagnoses - social anxiety disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


pensieve
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25 Apr 2011, 11:04 pm

guywithAS wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
I have no use for popularity. It takes time and energy just to deal with the attention


when your social interactions are constantly going extremely well, they are not very tiring. i suspect many of the symptoms of the autism spectrum are far less fixed than people realize.


I don't have an issue with social skills. It bores me. What I'm interested in others aren't and I'm not interested in what they are interested in. Mine is mostly a sensory issue which is so bad I can barely hear the people that I'm supposed to be interacting with. I also tend to have oppositional behaviour towards people, including psychiatrists.
Although I'm more on the classic autism side than AS so I've never really had much interest in people and I refuse to change for them.

People with AS can get better social skills using any type of method. The more successful encounters they have and the more practice then the more plastic changes in their brain. The plastic changes in my brain usually are about sensory overload and having meltdowns so they are not going away any time soon.


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