After 2 years I still CANT accept aspergers and be happy

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I disagree. Both of those could be Aspie traits as well, it seems to me. It all depends on the individual.

I was told somewhere on WP that most NTs hate to stand out from the norm, as in actions and looks. Some Aspies either like to be different, or just aren't bothered about other people. I thought NTs, being that they like to be more involved in the social world, thought more about what others think of them. That's why you don't see many NT teens and adults having meltdowns or excessively stimming in public (like flapping hands, ect).

Some, yes. But not all are the same. As was pointed out to me when I first arrived here, we're not clones.



You may not see many Aspies doing that in public, either. Acting / pretending is part of the whole Aspie thing. All human beings care what others think of them. We all want to be loved and accepted. That is not unique to NTs. Whether Aspie or NT, some are prepared to pretend to be someone they're not, in order to achieve said acceptance, and some are determined to carry on being themselves, in the hope that they'll be loved just the way they are. It takes more strength of character to do the latter, and that is not dependent on being Aspie or NT. It's just dependent on what type of personality you have, and how strong your convictions are.

The reason you won't see NTs having meltdowns or stimming (in public or otherwise) is not because they care what others think of them, but because they don't stim and they don't have meltdowns. They're NTs, remember?

The prejudice is that everyone's brain must work the same way, and not accounting for the possibility that they do not - and when you make it explicit to many people that your brain does not work the same way, they will often make it clear that the way to deal with this is for you to adapt to them - work as hard as you have to in order to accommodate them so that they never have to lift a finger to understand you.

I completely agree with what you're saying, and it makes me very angry and sad, but that's not prejudice. It's bullying, and trying to force people to be what they are not. It happens to me all the time.

Yer, everyone's different, but when I go out in the street everybody seems to be conforming. Last week my mum had nobody to pick her up from grocery shopping, so I suggested that she take her hold-all (which is a case with wheels, so you can pull along), and my mum was all like, ''no way - that would be embarrassing!'' And I said, ''why? That's what hold-alls are for!'' And she said, ''no - you don't see anyone else using them to carry shopping home. I would feel like (she used the name of a really weird person she knows of)''.

Also, lots of NTs seem afraid of ''breaking the rules'' when it comes to fashion. You don't see many people wearing socks with tights, or men wearing skirts, but if these suddenly came into fashion tomorrow, you'd be weird not to wear them like that.

All_White

I think it's actually a description close to what racism is. Racism doesn't really mean prejudice.

So you were fine with it all of your life until someone put a name to it? Curious.

I think you have an inaccurate perception of AS. Perhaps I can clarify some things for you.

People with AS, and people without AS have weaknesses. People with AS don't necessarily have more or less weaknesses than those without AS, people with AS just have a different set of weaknesses. Let us say people with AS have weakness set A, and people without AS have weakness set B.

In weakness set A you have difficulty detecting whether something should be taken literally or not. A person with AS may not be able to detect the minor inflections that hint that someone is being sarcastic or speaking metaphorically, more so than NT's.

In weakness set B, you have an intense need for social interaction. Most NT's are far greater need for others and do not weather being alone as well as people with AS.

In weakness set A you have difficulty in relation to a situation reflexively. People with AS often have to analyze situations before responding to them.

In weakness set B you have a tendency to become emotionally attached to situations one should not. Since NT's do respond emotionally and reflexively to social situations before they can analyze them, they have trouble distancing themselves in certain relationships and this can cause professional and ethical problems.

In weakness set A, you have stubborness. People with AS will cling to ideals and convictions instilled in them at a young age.

In weakness set B, you have a strong susceptibility to peer pressure. NT's often have a desire to impress their friends even if it means doing the wrong thing. They lack the insight to be able to consider the consequences of their actions during times like this.

So you see we all have weaknesses, we just have different sets of weaknesses, and often times those weaknesses are "different sides of the same coin" and may prove to be strengths when viewed from a different angle.

Most NT's fail to consider the strengths of AS because of a human tendency for egocentric thinking, which actually reflects an inability to empathize that NT's cannot see. Which brings us to another point, NT's can't empathize any better than people with AS, they simply have a different set of things they are likely to empathize over.

They are likely to empathize with friends and family, the death of one, not the death of many, characters in movies, and trivial situations of strangers. They are unlikely to empathize with the collective perspectives of another country or culture (example: The belief of many Americans that Pakistanis should not be angry about US forces doing unauthorized raids in their country while those same Americans would be appalled if the Pakistani military did unauthorized raids in the US, no matter the cause), the death of many, those they perceive as different than themselves, and so on.

In other words, they are horribly biased. I think people with AS aren't so much so. I recall a story in a book once, and unfortunately I don't recall the name of the book, it could have been The White Mountain Trilogy, but a traveler found himself trapped in a town surrounded by steep mountains that had been isolated from the rest of the world. The inhabitants of the town had some congenital disorder which made them blind, but had managed just fine. They did not realize they had a disorder, and upon feeling that the man's eyes were not sunken like there own, and moved about, they declared him to have a disorder that had to be fixed, and attempted to surgically remove his eyes.

Concerning the remainder of weakness of those with AS...the ones that are in excess, I believe that many of these weaknesses are only possessed by those who were diagnosed as children and were raised by well meaning, yet misguided NT parents who perceived AS as a disorder and somehow came under the impression that their children needed to be accommodated in daily things and basic life skills more than they actually did. As a result, they had lower expectations of their children with AS, felt a need to help by doing rather than teaching to do, as they would have with their other children, and thus the child's development has actually been inhibited by the parents.

I was fortunate my parents didn't see things that way and I was expected to attain certain skills regardless of AS.

That is not my experience. There are difficulties in living with AS, of course; but there are difficulties in any life. I was recently told by my counselor at disability services that they rarely have to support anyone as intensively as they're supporting me--and they have students who are quadriplegic and on ventilators. I could list all my autistic traits here, but I've done that before, and suffice it to say that without the help of other people I couldn't live alone, and would probably be dead right now.

But it's not the AS-related difficulties that cause me the actual distress. Yes, it's difficult. It's annoying sometimes, frustrating sometimes. Sometimes I cry; sometimes I get whiny. But when I look at the lives of the non-disabled people around me, I've realized that they have difficult and annoying things that make them cry and get whiny, too. Just because my problems are autism-related doesn't make them automatically worse than other people's.

On the other hand, when I can't accept myself--when I listen to the little voice in my head that says that I should be something I'm not, that it's not okay to be the way I was wired to be--that's when I'm truly distressed. Because when you listen to that voice, you're screwed either way. Either you can't live up to that standard, and you feel inadequate and damaged; or else you can, and you're forced to act in a way that isn't natural to you.

Disability is real, yes, and it causes real problems. But why are you buying into the idea that having problems must necessarily make your life horrible? Everyone has problems. What's causing this isn't disability; it's the perception of disability as negative, the idea that you must sit around and wait to be magically normal before you can live your life, the idea that doing things your way is automatically inferior to the way other people do it.

Life isn't particularly fair. The measure of a person is not in their talents of accomplishments, but in how they live with what has been handed them. At least that is my opinion on the matter.

I agree. I was just going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it.

I think people who are talking about accepting themselves as AS should stop focusing so much on the benefits. It's like saying, "It's okay to be disabled if you have these superpowers to make up for it."

But... It should be okay to be disabled. Period. It should be okay to have something that gives you absolutely no benefits. You shouldn't have to justify your existence with special skills or anything. You should be allowed to be who you are, with your impairments and your disability and all, without being expected to be something different.

It's like saying, "It's okay to be black if you're a really good basketball player." Or, "It's okay to be gay if you're a famous fashion designer." Or, "It's okay to be elderly if you're a wise, cute old grandparent who makes everyone cookies."

Do you see the issue here? These are stereotypes. Positive stereotypes, as well as negative stereotypes, can create serious problems. And saying, "It's okay to be autistic if you're a really smart engineer or a savant," is just as bad as any of the above. It should be, "It's okay to be autistic." Period. No qualifications, no need to make up for anything.

That is exactly what I was trying to say earlier.

I would look at it like that, except that this world is built by NTs, for NTs. I am struggling with looking for a job, (even though I am trying), but the government is laying off adult support workers and/or job advisors for adults with disabilities who find it more challenging. I don't believe that they are trying to save money by doing this, because why would they cut back our services then go and bail Portugal and Ireland out of their debts, when this country seriously needs all that money to be used here? So anyway, back to the point, the government probably thinks that nobody's got a disability, we are all NTs who have no anxieties or challenges, and can land in a job just like that, with no needed support. No - that is not how it should work. I am physically able to work, but I do need help in settling in, because I unintentionally struggle, because of my disability I suffer with.

Basically, what you wrote is completely true, but do NTs look upon it like that?

I don't see AS as an absolute disability. Only a conditional one. I'm different. Not disabled because of it. It puts me at a disadvantage in some rather mundane situations, but at an advantage in others.

These are not necessarily separate things, I don't think. Bullying can be and often is the result of prejudice - hence why LGBT children and teens are vulnerable to bullying.

And I don't know where Jediscraps is coming from - racism is racially motivated prejudice.

Last edited by Verdandi on 22 Jun 2011, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.