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Aspie_for_the_Lord
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22 Mar 2007, 5:58 pm

anbuend wrote:
Litigious wrote:
My country had sterilizing-laws before Nazi-Germany even existed and people were, often on very vague diagnoses, sterilized as being "abnormal", long after Nazi-Germany was wiped of the map, to 1976 to be exact...From the 1930:s, Sweden also had an "A"-children ("A" like in "A-type", not like in "Autistic") competition each year, that just happened to take place for the last time 1945...


America had sterilization too, and I think it continued into the '70s or '80s. We also had... I think they were called "fit family competitions" or something like that, where the "most eugenic family" and "most eugenic child" and so forth got awards. We also still have the remnants of the laws about who is allowed to marry and who isn't in some places. Also some people still get sterilized, not as the result of law but as the result of parents making the decision on their behalf once they hit puberty.

In fact even Germany was interested in that stuff long before Nazis existed, Nazis just took it to an extreme level and then around the world a lot of that stuff fell out of favor. (Although it's worth noting that medical killings in Germany continued after the Nazis were gone.)


Its sick really


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ZanneMarie
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22 Mar 2007, 6:19 pm

edgewaters wrote:
It's not that science is bad, it's what society does with it. Being able to detect autism during pregnancy allows society to do alot of different things with that information. It could mean abortions - or it could mean alot of people don't have to suffer through 30 or 40 years of being misunderstood.

I would just guess that abortion would be discouraged in the case of things like Asperger's. Any society that decided to abort all AS fetuses, would probably suffer too heavily in scientific and technological sophisitication. It would be frowned upon. If the issue came up, it might even force society into making a decision to validate and recognize AS more strongly, which would be a good thing.

Nonetheless there are alarming problems that may come up because of genetic science. Life or health insurance could start using genetic profiling, meaning some people with serious problems would pay exorbitant rates and many would go without. Conditions that are not seen as having little or no potential (retardation, for instance) might be aborted. And then there are other weird issues that could come up - like some parents with a disability of some sort (being deaf, for instance) might use genetic services to ensure their own child has the same handicap as them.


They have no idea at this point how to distinguish between the two or PDD-NOS for that matter.

I would say you'd have a subset of parents who want kids but no bother (I had to suffer through an hour of being with one such pregnant woman today GRRR) and they will, without hesitation, abort anything abnormal as they just simply do not want to deal with it. There isn't much you can do about that. There will be other people on the other end of the spectrum. You can't really compare it to Down's Syndrome as that Syndrome is a little less wide of a spectrum than A/a.

And yes, KimJ, if the baby has Down's, at least the last I was aware, they do late stage abortion, you are correct. Conceivably, you could test for genetics sooner, but the fact is that even though they have genetics at conception, they go through many changes for quite awhile (see the research on monozygotic twins). It's conceivable that an embryo with the markers would in fact not end up with it after all.



Sedaka
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22 Mar 2007, 6:43 pm

SamW wrote:
It's just a thought that's been going around my head recently. We have these scientists that are investigating the effects and the causes of Aspergers, Autism, and other mental disorders.

It's good to know the interesting facts and see if they are indeed relevant to yourself, and it's good that they've found out that it exsists in the first place, or we'd probably ujst all get labelled as trouble kids...

But can it go too far? Sometimes, I always land up thinking, what if I or any other in my situation we to be born further into the future, and scientists have been able to spot the genes of a disorder while the child is still growing inside it's mother?

How then, would a mother respond to the scientist saying "Your child has this disorder", and the mother then has the option to abort this child? Most people are ignorant to disorders like this, so basically, you have to think, that if this technology exsisted now, more than half of us would probably never have actually been born.....

Is it really these peoples right to say that we are not worthy of having a life? I know this is kind of bordering on that old topic of whether abortion is morally correct or not, but I still think that it is very relevant to the point I'm trying to make here.


i think this is something you can't really answer until YOU are the mother in that situation.

it's the same kind of issue for women who concieve children from a rape situation...

it's not really a decision that SCIENCE makes... it's up to the mother.

and like i said; you can't really know what you'd do until you're in that situation


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Graelwyn
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22 Mar 2007, 7:10 pm

Wow, seeing a lot of old threads being resurrected around the forums...quite a good thing as some of the older topics were very interesting... just too tired tonight to focus on responding much.


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Santa_Claus
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22 Mar 2007, 7:26 pm

Alternative wrote:
In the words of System Of a Down:

Making two possibilities a reality,
Predicting the future of things we all know,
Fighting off the diseased programming
Of centuries, centuries, centuries, centuries.

Science fails to recognize the single most
Potent element of human existence
letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our Mother Earth.

Science fails to recognize the single most
Potent element of human existence
letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things.

letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith
letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our Mother Earth.

Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Science has failed our Mother Earth.

Nice.



richie
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22 Mar 2007, 7:26 pm

"Necessity is the true mother of all invention". A society without needs becomes
a society without innovation. A society without innovation becomes a society of
nothing but needs. Stagnation and decadence are the end result for the so-called
"Master-Piece" societies.



nutbag
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22 Mar 2007, 7:56 pm

Ahh' eugenics. Eugenics, whereupon a select set of experts shall control the very shape of humanity! Glorius days ahead!

I trust "experts" approximately as far as I can toss my truck; that is to say not at all.


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23 Mar 2007, 2:41 am

We are an other, and that is all we will ever be to the same.

If they could find a way, we would be gone. We need our own place. We can live in the world, but we will always be second class until we prove our worth on our own.

No one gives self determination, it has to be taken.

We will be considered defectives until we prove our equality.

I have been in IT for over 40 years, it would have never happened without us.

It is not the only technology, NASA has been called and aspie preserve, many more teaching at universities, and the leaders in game technology and animation.

Most of the advanced technology of the last fifty years.

We are the backbone of this science that now threatens our own future generations.

Why are we making them wealthy, why are we giving them weapons to use against us, and the groups who claim to be our leaders, are demanding we be cured.

If we do not act and speak for our selves, we will be cured out of existance.

The aspie vote will never effect politics.

By our very nature, an aspie town would be high tech.

We would quickly become a back office for Redmond, Silicon Valley, and Round Rock, first for our technology, second because they are major producers of aspie children who need a place to grow up.

The school system throws aspies in with all other disabled, the violent, the hopeless, not with the brightest and best. Government and education fail us, the medical profession tries to cure us, animals to be experimented on, so they might learn how to prevent us from being born.

I was not educated in school, I was punished for being a bad human, a defective with no right to exist.

I made my own way in the world, because I have a high IQ, I can learn much faster than ordinary people, and IT took that skill. Technology is advancing rapidly now because of some 80s geeks.

Ordinary people are becoming obsolete. They can go to school, get a Masters in IT, and hold a low level job in business. They do not make the jump to the core of the industry.

Aspies adapt upward very well, and where groups have gather, spawned industries that two decades later are larger than energy, trransportation, food processing, construction, combined.

We are the best adapted for the future. Gathering in groups, becoming self educating, as all us old models did, we would be the workforce of choice for any tech company. Bill Gates does not care if you flap your hands.

We are getting defective treatment, like they were trying to keep us down. We are obsessive/passionate about our work, truthful, honest, very few in jail, law abiding folk.

We need a better deal, deserve it, and can only take it for ourselves.



richie
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23 Mar 2007, 5:18 pm

nutbag wrote:
Ahh' eugenics. Eugenics, whereupon a select set of experts shall control the very shape of humanity! Glorius days ahead!

I trust "experts" approximately as far as I can toss my truck; that is to say not at all.


"Whereupon a select set of experts...." Who will do the selecting? A bunch of irresponsible politicians
put into power by an irresponsible electorate? By what standards will these select few be chosen?
As if we don't have enough nightmares already!! !



richie
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23 Mar 2007, 5:40 pm

Inventor wrote:
We are an other, and that is all we will ever be to the same.

If they could find a way, we would be gone. We need our own place. We can live in the world, but we will always be second class until we prove our worth on our own.

No one gives self determination, it has to be taken.

We will be considered defectives until we prove our equality.

I have been in IT for over 40 years, it would have never happened without us.

It is not the only technology, NASA has been called and aspie preserve, many more teaching at universities, and the leaders in game technology and animation.

Most of the advanced technology of the last fifty years.

We are the backbone of this science that now threatens our own future generations.

Why are we making them wealthy, why are we giving them weapons to use against us, and the groups who claim to be our leaders, are demanding we be cured.

If we do not act and speak for our selves, we will be cured out of existance.

The aspie vote will never effect politics.

By our very nature, an aspie town would be high tech.

We would quickly become a back office for Redmond, Silicon Valley, and Round Rock, first for our technology, second because they are major producers of aspie children who need a place to grow up.

The school system throws aspies in with all other disabled, the violent, the hopeless, not with the brightest and best. Government and education fail us, the medical profession tries to cure us, animals to be experimented on, so they might learn how to prevent us from being born.

I was not educated in school, I was punished for being a bad human, a defective with no right to exist.

I made my own way in the world, because I have a high IQ, I can learn much faster than ordinary people, and IT took that skill. Technology is advancing rapidly now because of some 80s geeks.

Ordinary people are becoming obsolete. They can go to school, get a Masters in IT, and hold a low level job in business. They do not make the jump to the core of the industry.

Aspies adapt upward very well, and where groups have gather, spawned industries that two decades later are larger than energy, trransportation, food processing, construction, combined.

We are the best adapted for the future. Gathering in groups, becoming self educating, as all us old models did, we would be the workforce of choice for any tech company. Bill Gates does not care if you flap your hands.

We are getting defective treatment, like they were trying to keep us down. We are obsessive/passionate about our work, truthful, honest, very few in jail, law abiding folk.

We need a better deal, deserve it, and can only take it for ourselves.



I have worked in the electronics industry for over 25 years. Only a certain type of mind can work
at problems by endless tedious trial and error methods to get something to work right.
In this line of work, failures are just as valuable as successes, failures teach us how not build
something. The same goes for other things in our lives.
There are too many "good intentioned morons" who want to "protect" us from our potentials
and deprive us of our rights. I mentioned this on another thread several days ago:
"WTF is Autism Speaks"
http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... c&start=30