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YellowBanana
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24 Jun 2011, 5:36 pm

huntedman wrote:
Although the worst for me was when the examiner asked tell me what it feels like to be sad. I was so stunned, sad was the most basic emotion I knew, there was nothing bellow it that i could use to define the experience.

After what felt like an eternity, all I could rattle off was a long list of ridiculous synonyms for sad: despondent, morose, disheartened, downtrodden ... yes, but these are just other words for sad, please try to explain sad ... ... ... Ok then, lets just move on to something else


It blows my mind to think that people might be able to describe what emotions feel like. Can people really do it???? I suppose they must, because otherwise they wouldn't ask the question. But to me that just seems utterly bizarre. The most I would be able to do would be, like you, to reel off a list of synonyms...



littlelily613
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24 Jun 2011, 6:19 pm

Verdandi wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
Hmmm...I don't know if my story "passed" or not then. If she hadn't given an example first and just let me go ahead and do it alone, she would have had a very different story on her hand. The only reason I called the q-tip and the other thing a person was because she did it. I never would have thought to use a shoe lace as a road or a hair tie as a lake. I would have made something about about a literal shoe lace and a hair tie.


Well, what was the story she told compared to yours?

Also, that you imitated what she did will probably be pretty obvious to her. I mean, people who administer these have to be trained for it.


I can't remember exactly what she said--if she brought in emotions or feelings. I was too busy thinking, "I never would have thought to make that hair tie a lake or that green ball a bush".



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24 Jun 2011, 7:02 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
Hmmm...I don't know if my story "passed" or not then. If she hadn't given an example first and just let me go ahead and do it alone, she would have had a very different story on her hand. The only reason I called the q-tip and the other thing a person was because she did it. I never would have thought to use a shoe lace as a road or a hair tie as a lake. I would have made something about about a literal shoe lace and a hair tie.


Well, what was the story she told compared to yours?

Also, that you imitated what she did will probably be pretty obvious to her. I mean, people who administer these have to be trained for it.


I can't remember exactly what she said--if she brought in emotions or feelings. I was too busy thinking, "I never would have thought to make that hair tie a lake or that green ball a bush".


Yeah, I doubt I would think of that either.

Odds are she picked up on your imitation.



huntedman
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24 Jun 2011, 7:52 pm

Verdandi wrote:
huntedman wrote:
I felt kind of silly doing allot of the ADOS, I wish they had made at least some changes if they were going to use it as a diagnostic tool for adults.

There are different ADOS procedures/props/etc for different ages. They should have used an adult-appropriate ADOS with you (and it's possible they did).


Yes, they used the age appropriate module, It just didn't seem very appropriate, especially the props.

I'm curious to hear that the fictional story was testing theory of mind as well. I always assumed they were testing only imaginary play.

littlelily613 wrote:
I picked a pog with a boxing scene on it and leaned it against a red square block. Then I sort of copied what she did (I don't know if she picked up on that or not). She used a shoe lace as a road, so I used a popsicle stick as a "wooded path". She used a non-human-like thing as a person, so I used the same object and half a Q-tip as another person. My story: "two friends walked down a wooded path and........saw a fight".


sounds like you did quite a bit better than I did. Other than the objects that had to become characters, everything else stayed pretty much what it was. Bob the ball got into his toy car with his wife the ribbon and drove to his mansion, were he killed bill the Popsicle with the candle stick in the billiard room. (yes, I did actually make a bad clue reference, I needed something)

YellowBanana wrote:
It blows my mind to think that people might be able to describe what emotions feel like. Can people really do it???? I suppose they must, because otherwise they wouldn't ask the question. But to me that just seems utterly bizarre. The most I would be able to do would be, like you, to reel off a list of synonyms...


Wondering what the expected NT response was bothered me so much, it was my first question to the examiner when he gave me the diagnostic report. Are you supposed to describe in terms of physical signs (cold, dark ect.)? How would you describe sad? ...

What I got back was the most aggravating response: (very cavalier attitude) Oh .. you can describe sad in any way that you wish and it would be correct, it is just the fact that you can describe it



Verdandi
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24 Jun 2011, 8:11 pm

I could be wrong about what they get from the story, but it seems to me to provide a more nearly accurate method of deriving one's ability to assign motives, beliefs, etc. to people than the typical theory of mind tasks.

Also, here are some descriptions of sadness:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 704AAvctIT



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24 Jun 2011, 8:30 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Also, here are some descriptions of sadness:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 704AAvctIT


That was an interesting read, thank you.

You might be right on the theory of mind test as well, I was trying to think of were else they tested it and i can't. It must have been tested somewhere, since it is a pretty core symptom.



Last edited by huntedman on 24 Jun 2011, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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24 Jun 2011, 8:31 pm

Did they have you do the "Reading the mind in the eyes" test, where they had you look at people's eyes and guess what they're feeling? That's another "theory of mind" test, although I think it's kind of terrible.



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24 Jun 2011, 8:36 pm

huntedman wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
I picked a pog with a boxing scene on it and leaned it against a red square block. Then I sort of copied what she did (I don't know if she picked up on that or not). She used a shoe lace as a road, so I used a popsicle stick as a "wooded path". She used a non-human-like thing as a person, so I used the same object and half a Q-tip as another person. My story: "two friends walked down a wooded path and........saw a fight".


sounds like you did quite a bit better than I did. Other than the objects that had to become characters, everything else stayed pretty much what it was. Bob the ball got into his toy car with his wife the ribbon and drove to his mansion, were he killed bill the Popsicle with the candle stick in the billiard room. (yes, I did actually make a bad clue reference, I needed something)


I actually think yours sounds a lot more creative than mine. :) The pog actually had a fight scene on it (no imagination required either). I actually used one sentence--exactly what I said up above. I didn't elaborate. One of my props was used just to hold up another. I am kind of surprised I got away with that....



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24 Jun 2011, 8:38 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Did they have you do the "Reading the mind in the eyes" test, where they had you look at people's eyes and guess what they're feeling? That's another "theory of mind" test, although I think it's kind of terrible.


I didn't do anything like this. If that story thing was testing theory of mind, I still don't see it. not that it wasn't testing that, I am just pretty oblivious to those kinds of things, and I may not have picked up on it. Nothing I did seemed to be judging other people's emotions or thoughts or motives, etc.



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24 Jun 2011, 8:51 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Did they have you do the "Reading the mind in the eyes" test, where they had you look at people's eyes and guess what they're feeling? That's another "theory of mind" test, although I think it's kind of terrible.


I didn't do anything like this. If that story thing was testing theory of mind, I still don't see it. not that it wasn't testing that, I am just pretty oblivious to those kinds of things, and I may not have picked up on it. Nothing I did seemed to be judging other people's emotions or thoughts or motives, etc.


You looked at pictures in a story book and had to tell a story based on those pictures? There were people depicted in the pictures? If so, that's part of what you were expected to do for that task.



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24 Jun 2011, 9:02 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Did they have you do the "Reading the mind in the eyes" test, where they had you look at people's eyes and guess what they're feeling? That's another "theory of mind" test, although I think it's kind of terrible.


No, didn't have to do that test, or the any of the tests for faceblindness, which kind of surprised me.

Maybe I just have a false idea of theory of mind, but this seems like a strange test too. I though the whole idea was being able to determine when the views and beliefs of other people are different from your own. Then start to imagine how they would react in certain situations based on their beliefs/knowledge ect.

Of course the eyes on the paper have different feelings then myself, you told me so, it is a part of the test.

littlelily613 wrote:
I actually used one sentence--exactly what I said up above. I didn't elaborate. One of my props was used just to hold up another. I am kind of surprised I got away with that....


This made me laugh. I think it's awesome you broke the rules of the test and got away with it, That's probably got to count as imagination right there.

I should have just built something with all the props and declared "bob the ball stayed in his house"
(examiner) what happened then? why doesn't bob leave the house? Oh, no bob has sensory issues :P



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24 Jun 2011, 9:26 pm

Verdandi wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Did they have you do the "Reading the mind in the eyes" test, where they had you look at people's eyes and guess what they're feeling? That's another "theory of mind" test, although I think it's kind of terrible.


I didn't do anything like this. If that story thing was testing theory of mind, I still don't see it. not that it wasn't testing that, I am just pretty oblivious to those kinds of things, and I may not have picked up on it. Nothing I did seemed to be judging other people's emotions or thoughts or motives, etc.


You looked at pictures in a story book and had to tell a story based on those pictures? There were people depicted in the pictures? If so, that's part of what you were expected to do for that task.


The picture book I looked at was about frogs. It was a child's book, but without any words. I had to tell a story based on the pictures I've seen. I don't know if I was expected to supply thoughts and feelings to the characters. I assumed I was just supposed to create a story based on what I saw. Either way, it was a disaster. I gave short, one second lines to every picture that I saw, but again, nothing cohesive enough to actually be a real story. It was quite pathetic!



littlelily613
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24 Jun 2011, 9:30 pm

huntedman wrote:
This made me laugh. I think it's awesome you broke the rules of the test and got away with it, That's probably got to count as imagination right there.

I should have just built something with all the props and declared "bob the ball stayed in his house"
(examiner) what happened then? why doesn't bob leave the house? Oh, no bob has sensory issues :P


LOLOL!! :D

Haha, so maybe we do have a tiny bit of imagination hiding inside somewhere!

Did you have to look a series of pictures and then stand up and tell the story? I did two of those. Both very mediocre; however, they were probably more coherent than the picture book disaster. I don't know what the purpose was of standing, but I did try to get out of it...with no success! lol



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24 Jun 2011, 9:40 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
The picture book I looked at was about frogs. It was a child's book, but without any words. I had to tell a story based on the pictures I've seen. I don't know if I was expected to supply thoughts and feelings to the characters. I assumed I was just supposed to create a story based on what I saw. Either way, it was a disaster. I gave short, one second lines to every picture that I saw, but again, nothing cohesive enough to actually be a real story. It was quite pathetic!


So there was really little or no social content or elements in your interpretation of the book?

NTs might give the frog a name, a personal history, hobbies, friends, family, hopes, dreams, and describe an overall plot/narrative with a clear beginning, middle, and end. It may not be a very good story, but it would clearly be a story, and you'd have characters with motives and personalities.

The fact that you didn't know to do this is a possible sign of an autistic spectrum disorder.

... this sort of thing has become the focus of my interest in autism lately.



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24 Jun 2011, 10:03 pm

Verdandi wrote:
NTs might give the frog a name, a personal history, hobbies, friends, family, hopes, dreams, and describe an overall plot/narrative with a clear beginning, middle, and end. It may not be a very good story, but it would clearly be a story, and you'd have characters with motives and personalities.


Oh, do you think that was what I was supposed to do? :oops: Well, if I was NT maybe. I definitely didn't do any of that. I basically said something stupid like, "the frogs are flying" then turned the page...yeah basically what the picture looked like and that is all. Once I said something was scared, but that is really the only time I ever brought in any emotion to the story.



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24 Jun 2011, 11:36 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
NTs might give the frog a name, a personal history, hobbies, friends, family, hopes, dreams, and describe an overall plot/narrative with a clear beginning, middle, and end. It may not be a very good story, but it would clearly be a story, and you'd have characters with motives and personalities.


Oh, do you think that was what I was supposed to do? :oops: Well, if I was NT maybe. I definitely didn't do any of that. I basically said something stupid like, "the frogs are flying" then turned the page...yeah basically what the picture looked like and that is all. Once I said something was scared, but that is really the only time I ever brought in any emotion to the story.


You were supposed to do exactly what you did, I think.