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In defence of the self-DX "mild" Aspies...

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Sweetleaf
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06 Jul 2011, 10:25 pm

Verdandi wrote:
RudolfsDad wrote:
However, I really don't think people should self diagnose. The DSM-IV explicitly states that the diagnostic criteria for these disorders "should not be rigidly applied by untrained individuals". I firmly believe that a diagnosis can ONLY be made by a qualified, trained professional with extensive specialized training and clinical experience. Many psychological disorders are highly similar to each other and there is often a substantial overlap of symptoms. (There are countless people out there with anxiety disorders, for example, that wrongly self-diagnose as ADHD).


I don't know if there's been any actual studies, but it's been my experience that a lot of people I've come across who self-dx themselves with ADHD and get evaluated get diagnosed with it.

The thing about the qualified, trained professional with extensive specialized training and clinical experience is that they're supposed to know how to diagnose people from what said people report and how they present themselves. The experience of being someone with a condition like AS or ADHD or other conditions is not the same as the experience of observing someone else. It's not comparable.

I don't see a problem with people self-diagnosing - and I don't see a lot of people who strictly diagnose themselves from the DSM-IV criteria, but tend to draw on other information (such as descriptions by other people who have the same condition), which goes well beyond the DSM and ties back to the experience of being someone with one of those conditions.


I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.



Verdandi
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06 Jul 2011, 10:28 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.


Exactly, although I have seen some (usually professionals or students tracked to become professionals) say no one should research such information.



SammichEater
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06 Jul 2011, 11:25 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.


Exactly, although I have seen some (usually professionals or students tracked to become professionals) say no one should research such information.


Only because of their own ego. Oh, look at me, I'm a professional, only I know how to read. :roll:


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jamieevren1210
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06 Jul 2011, 11:39 pm

IMHO self diagnose : hey what's this...my god it's the spitting image of me!! !
Hyperchondriac: oh my I have one symptom...what should I do? I hate clothes tags, that means I have Asperger's ! !!(runs crying to shrink)



Sweetleaf
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06 Jul 2011, 11:48 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.


Exactly, although I have seen some (usually professionals or students tracked to become professionals) say no one should research such information.


Well that is ridiculous...why should only professionals research psychology? besides as someone with AS I can't help but obsessively research things that capture my intrest.



DeaconBlues
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06 Jul 2011, 11:49 pm

SammichEater wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.


Exactly, although I have seen some (usually professionals or students tracked to become professionals) say no one should research such information.


Only because of their own ego. Oh, look at me, I'm a professional, only I know how to read. :roll:

Sounds like the experience my wife and I had with her physician (an LPN) when she was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. The LPN wanted her to take naproxen for the pain, which is comparable to treating a car's blown head gasket by changing the oil. I did some research, and wrote a letter to the LPN recommending a switch to Lyrica or similar medication, as it interferes with pain receptors by binding to the calcium channel, and doesn't present the same danger of serotonin syndrome as tramadol (which she had previously been prescribed) when taken in conjunction with the SSRIs she needs for her Major Depressive Disorder. The LPN's response, when she read the letter, was, "Did he Google this?" (To which I reply, "Yes, of course I did. Why? Didn't you?")

She eventually prescribed gabapentin (generic Neurontin), which acts similarly to Lyrica. My wife is now able to sleep through the night, and put clothing on without screaming in agony. Thank you, Google and WebMD.


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Sweetleaf
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06 Jul 2011, 11:59 pm

Since I have taken psychology I have learned a couple of important things:
hindsight bias-reading something and having the 'I knew it all along' reaction, so I know to be careful with applying something to myself without actually analizing it.

Also overconfidence and specifically seeking out information that confirms your opinion/theory rather then all relevent information.....so I avoid letting either of those possible errors interfere with my researching of various subjects.

I don't have a degree in psychology but I am well on my way to learning a lot about it, next semester I will be taking abnormal psychology.



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07 Jul 2011, 12:24 am

DeaconBlues wrote:
Sounds like the experience my wife and I had with her physician (an LPN) when she was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. The LPN wanted her to take naproxen for the pain, which is comparable to treating a car's blown head gasket by changing the oil. I did some research, and wrote a letter to the LPN recommending a switch to Lyrica or similar medication, as it interferes with pain receptors by binding to the calcium channel, and doesn't present the same danger of serotonin syndrome as tramadol (which she had previously been prescribed) when taken in conjunction with the SSRIs she needs for her Major Depressive Disorder. The LPN's response, when she read the letter, was, "Did he Google this?" (To which I reply, "Yes, of course I did. Why? Didn't you?")

She eventually prescribed gabapentin (generic Neurontin), which acts similarly to Lyrica. My wife is now able to sleep through the night, and put clothing on without screaming in agony. Thank you, Google and WebMD.


Something similar happened back when my grandmother was still alive. She was on at least half a dozen different medications and was a mess--couldn't eat and felt sick all the time. I looked them up and sure enough, they all had some very nasty interactions. I brought the information to her doctor and convinced him to take her off of all but one or two of them (which did not interact). She improved immediately.


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07 Jul 2011, 12:24 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.


Exactly, although I have seen some (usually professionals or students tracked to become professionals) say no one should research such information.


Well that is ridiculous...why should only professionals research psychology? besides as someone with AS I can't help but obsessively research things that capture my intrest.


I think like SammichEater said - it's ego, at least in part. I've had doctors outright tell me that information found on the internet is worthless, and I was referring to peer-reviewed papers I had read online. Some react very badly to clients who educate themselves.



conundrum
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07 Jul 2011, 12:27 am

Verdandi wrote:

I think like SammichEater said - it's ego, at least in part. I've had doctors outright tell me that information found on the internet is worthless, and I was referring to peer-reviewed papers I had read online. Some react very badly to clients who educate themselves.


^This.

IMO, one of the signs of a good doctor is not being afraid of a little "competition." :wink:


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Sweetleaf
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07 Jul 2011, 12:42 am

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I feel I am perfectly intelligent enough to look at the DSM criteria, other peoples experiances, my experiances ect......and figure out where I fit. I mean I would not mind a professional diagnosis but like I can afford it. Should I just not research any info about mental conditions I suspect I could have and hope for the best? I think not.


Exactly, although I have seen some (usually professionals or students tracked to become professionals) say no one should research such information.


Well that is ridiculous...why should only professionals research psychology? besides as someone with AS I can't help but obsessively research things that capture my intrest.


I think like SammichEater said - it's ego, at least in part. I've had doctors outright tell me that information found on the internet is worthless, and I was referring to peer-reviewed papers I had read online. Some react very badly to clients who educate themselves.


My theory is individuals who are able to educate themselves are a threat to the profit of those who diagnose. Not saying all doctors or professionals are that way but I am sure there is a fair amount.



Verdandi
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07 Jul 2011, 12:46 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
My theory is individuals who are able to educate themselves are a threat to the profit of those who diagnose. Not saying all doctors or professionals are that way but I am sure there is a fair amount.


I'm not sure how. Self-diagnosis doesn't really get one anywhere without professional backing. I mean, I determined on my own that I had depression, ADHD, AS, and fibromyalgia, but without professionals to confirm those diagnoses they didn't really mean much for any kind of institutional or medicinal purposes. I need the medication for ADHD, fibromyalgia, and depression, and I need all of those (plus anxiety, which I was diagnosed with years ago) along with documentation of my impairments for my SSI application.



Sweetleaf
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07 Jul 2011, 1:29 am

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
My theory is individuals who are able to educate themselves are a threat to the profit of those who diagnose. Not saying all doctors or professionals are that way but I am sure there is a fair amount.


I'm not sure how. Self-diagnosis doesn't really get one anywhere without professional backing. I mean, I determined on my own that I had depression, ADHD, AS, and fibromyalgia, but without professionals to confirm those diagnoses they didn't really mean much for any kind of institutional or medicinal purposes. I need the medication for ADHD, fibromyalgia, and depression, and I need all of those (plus anxiety, which I was diagnosed with years ago) along with documentation of my impairments for my SSI application.


Yeah I guess that is a bit of a stretch, but sometimes I do have to wonder how competent the professionals are...I mean I feel like if I had sceduled an appointment to talk to a doctor about stopping my anti-depressants they would have told me to keep taking them tell I got 'used' to it......but my brain was telling me no more period. I can't say for sure but I guess it just seems a lot of medical/mental health professionals are a bit overconfident and arrogant which could cause them not to listen to those they are treating as much as they should.



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07 Jul 2011, 1:40 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
My theory is individuals who are able to educate themselves are a threat to the profit of those who diagnose. Not saying all doctors or professionals are that way but I am sure there is a fair amount.


I'm not sure how. Self-diagnosis doesn't really get one anywhere without professional backing. I mean, I determined on my own that I had depression, ADHD, AS, and fibromyalgia, but without professionals to confirm those diagnoses they didn't really mean much for any kind of institutional or medicinal purposes. I need the medication for ADHD, fibromyalgia, and depression, and I need all of those (plus anxiety, which I was diagnosed with years ago) along with documentation of my impairments for my SSI application.


Yeah I guess that is a bit of a stretch, but sometimes I do have to wonder how competent the professionals are...I mean I feel like if I had sceduled an appointment to talk to a doctor about stopping my anti-depressants they would have told me to keep taking them tell I got 'used' to it......but my brain was telling me no more period. I can't say for sure but I guess it just seems a lot of medical/mental health professionals are a bit overconfident and arrogant which could cause them not to listen to those they are treating as much as they should.


Yes, I agree with that. Also, I've had a very similar experience with needing to stop an antidepressant (Paxil).



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07 Jul 2011, 1:49 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
My theory is individuals who are able to educate themselves are a threat to the profit of those who diagnose. Not saying all doctors or professionals are that way but I am sure there is a fair amount.


Agree with this. I have never met a professional who was not irritated when I put my 2 cents worth commenting on their discipline. It's like - "How dare he comment/question my expertise"

I think it's a god complex.



Sweetleaf
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07 Jul 2011, 1:54 am

Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
My theory is individuals who are able to educate themselves are a threat to the profit of those who diagnose. Not saying all doctors or professionals are that way but I am sure there is a fair amount.


I'm not sure how. Self-diagnosis doesn't really get one anywhere without professional backing. I mean, I determined on my own that I had depression, ADHD, AS, and fibromyalgia, but without professionals to confirm those diagnoses they didn't really mean much for any kind of institutional or medicinal purposes. I need the medication for ADHD, fibromyalgia, and depression, and I need all of those (plus anxiety, which I was diagnosed with years ago) along with documentation of my impairments for my SSI application.


Yeah I guess that is a bit of a stretch, but sometimes I do have to wonder how competent the professionals are...I mean I feel like if I had sceduled an appointment to talk to a doctor about stopping my anti-depressants they would have told me to keep taking them tell I got 'used' to it......but my brain was telling me no more period. I can't say for sure but I guess it just seems a lot of medical/mental health professionals are a bit overconfident and arrogant which could cause them not to listen to those they are treating as much as they should.


Yes, I agree with that. Also, I've had a very similar experience with needing to stop an antidepressant (Paxil).


I was on prozac for about 4 weeks and on the last day I took it things got very horrible..so horrible I threw the rest of the bottle away. Also I can't say for sure but it seems like I did not fully recover from that yet.....so yeah I am a little bit biased towards not trusting the professionals after that whole thing.