American Flags

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One minor nit here, Norway is not part of the European Union, but Sweden IS.

Also, it is not unusual to see state flags on poles adjacent to the ones that hold USA flags. Also, here in Wisconsin at least, it is also not unusual to see the banner of an NFL team either on a third adjacent pole or on the same pole under the USA and state flag.


I love seeing the USA flag flying wherever there is a pole for it.

I was somewhat taken aback a year or so ago when the owner of a local restaurant (A first-generation immigrant) told me that it was illegal for someone to install a flagpole and fly a modern German flag in their front yard in Germany. It has been over 60 years, THREE generations, and Germans are still all hung up over the subject of German nationalism.

I will be the first to admit that the history of the USA is not all sitting around the fire and singing Kumbaya, but despite its historical warts, it is still the best thing going in the World today and far more people continue to want to get in to it than get out.

Also, one of the more well-known USA patriotic songs combines the notes of the British National Anthem (God Save the King/Queen) with words written in the 1770s(?) as a protest during the American Revolution. It starts "My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty...".

As for visiting the USA, you say that you are starting in Missouri. The Gateway Arch on the Mississippi River waterfront in downtown Saint Louis is a must-visit for tourists (I've been there). I am remiss in that you are not planning to head up I-55 (about a 6 hour drive) from there to Chicagoland. (Amtrak also makes a couple of round trips per day on that route.) Chicago is a World-class city that combines the best of cosmopolitan urbanity (and a great and growing tall building skyline) with that unique midwestern USA attitude.

Enjoy your roadtrip and remember to drive on the right.



Mike

i like the swedish flag. it looks like a christmas gift

Thank you.

I feel like such a "freak" everytime I read about politics or religion on these forums....I think I have only seen about 5 people who post here who think similiar to me about politics and about 50% who share my confused spirituality(non-christian)its a little bit disheartening at times.I dont hate America,
I do think its better then many countries and believe our"founding fathers" had good intentions in many aspects.....but when I read history....argggg...its impossible for me to be "rah,rah,America"....

I'd forgotten Norway was not a member of the EU. And I seem to recall that there was a very strange reason for it, though I just can't remember what that was. (I also seem to remember there was some strange controversy or scandal involving... Finland, I think it was, and the map of Europe on the Euro coins or something. If only I had a better memory....)

A near as I can tell, I'm the only one, anywhere, who sees politics and religion my way.

Don't let it get you down - it just means you are not identical to everyone else. And really, who would WANT to be identical to everyone else? (Well, lots of people, actually. But in spite of the occassional low point, I'd say I'm having much more fun with my life than all the identical people around me seem to be....)

And, of course you don't hate the U.S. - I think there is a certain number of people living here who DO hate it, but there's not that many of them, and they have what they would consider to be better things to do than talk to us.

But I do think that many people on "that other side" demand absolute perfection in a world which is mutually exclusive to perfection - and then allow themselves to get disillusioned and depressed when the U.S. cannot meet those demands for perfection. There's nothing wrong with demanding perfection, but I can't imagine that, reality being what it is, depending emotionally on getting perfect results would be healthy for anyone (at least, I'm certain that I would only drive myself to depression and a nervous breakdown that way!)

This is an imperfect, corrupt, and sinful world by nearly any definition I can imagine - thus horrible, shameful, miserable things are to be expected, and as such, they should merely be the background of normal life in this world. The truely remarkable thing is all the things that go RIGHT in this world in spite of everything... and that includes the things that the United States has gotten right, and the fact that, in spite of everything, the utterly clueless people of the United States often still try to do the right thing whenever they can, even when they're not at all sure what the right thing to do is (and sometimes even when the doing the right thing brings only loss, sorrow, pain, and misery upon them.)

That must have been some other country. They had a referendum about it, and the Norwegian people voted "no".

Some member countries have refused to accept the Euro as their currency, though, namely Sweden, Denmark and UK. That upset a lot of bureacrat and lobbying jerks in Brussels. The Euro coins and notes must have the country of origin on one side and the map of Europe on the other, thats correct. Why we should have the country of origin on one side is above my mind, though. You don't have "Texas" or "New York" on the back side of your money, do you? No.

I've voted against all this EU crap from the beginning, by the way.

I admire your freedom of speech and right to bear arms. For me, those two are fundamental human rights. In my opinion you have right to speak out your mind as long as you don't threaten any particular person, and of course you have right to defend your property, freedom and life with firearms. You shouldn't need some coward gun license or asking Big Brother as if it were some f*****g privilege to keep and bear arms. I also think your country is very beautiful, especially the western and southern parts.

But much in America is crap. You should have a better welfare system. You should leave other countries alone. You didn't get yourselves free from Britain to get yourselves colonies, did you?

wow... well this thread went off course just about completely didnt it!

I'm pretty patriotic myself and as obsessions go, I think this is a pretty good one to have. You're the kind of person I'd welcome as an immigrant to America. If you ever do decide to try, I wish you luck and hope that our citizens will make you feel welcome.

No need to apologize for admitting you do, in fact, like America. I would be more inclined to, well, be litigious with you about the issue of leaving other countries alone, but with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan not going so well, I must say America needs a more isolationist defense policy.

On the other hand, in what possible way can a war ever go "right"? War is (or, at least, should be) what happens when everything goes wrong, and things don't start going right again until long after one side has decisively won.

In any war, soldiers and civilians die, property and homes are wrecked, wealth is lost and money is thrown away never to be seen again, and horror and misery are heaped up in extra helpings on everyone in its way.

To desire never having to see a war that is not going so well is, really, to desire no wars at all (which is nice, and really, down inside, hardly anybody wants war, not even soldiers, politicians, generals, dictators, warlords, military manufacturers, and all the rest - a quick, painless victory, certainly... but a victory they have to sweat, cry, bleed, and risk their lives, carreers, and comfort for in the madness of war, definitely not! It is the nature of armies and governments to wish to get everything they want without obstacles, limitations, risk, or work.) But, we can all desire a world without war all we want to, and work as hard as we can to achieve such a world, but the reality is that war will happen, in the bloodiest and messiest way concievable, whether anyone wants it to or not.

The United States did not declare this war - it was declared on them decades ago, and for the most of my lifetime the U.S. has been trying to pretend that declaration of war never happened, and trying to pretend that, by ignoring this war, it will just magically go away. Unfortunately, as much as we would like to just pretend it isn't happening and no matter how successfully we manage to ignore it, it hasn't gone away, and the result was the loss of many innocent lives.

It can be argued this war was declared on the U.S. centuries ago, before the modern state of Israel was founded and before oil became a vital commodity - not very many Americans realise that Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and George Washington did their best to negotiate a peaceful solution to war with Islamic pirates and terrorists in the 1780's, terrorists who kidnapped, ransomed, and murdered American citizens at will with the full blessing and backing of Islamic governments in North Africa for no other reason than that Americans were Christian "sinners" and the kidnappings and ransoms were profitable. Vast sums of money that the young United States could hardly afford were paid to the Muslims to get them to leave us alone, but it accomplished nothing except putting the attacks off for a short time, at which point they would begin again, funded by the money extorted from their victims. Thomas Jefferson finally realised that the only permanent solution to the problem would be war with North African Muslims. The U.S. eventually won the battles against the pirates' sponsor-states of Tunis, Morocco, Algiers, and Tripoli, and helped to effectively decimate their pirate navies; British, Italian, French, German, and other European colonial empires would later distract the Muslim world from the U.S. for a long time. But the war between the U.S. and Islam never really ended; the official statement from the Islamic world to Thomas Jefferson stated that, according to the Koran, non-Muslims were sinners and Muslims had a right and a duty to make war upon and kill and enslave non-Muslims at every opportunity; for a very vocal and influential segment of the Islamic world today, not very much has changed since then.


That got REALLY far off-topic, but the next time you see the American flag waving while you hear the U.S. Marine Corps' Hymn, and the line "From the Halls of Montezuma, to the Shores of Tripoli" - remember that the hymn is referring to a war fought between Islamic pirates and terrorists, and the United States, started by Muslims practically before the ink on the United States Constitution was even dry, at a time before most of the world had even heard of the United States or would recognise her flag

I'm really shocked at your itinerary. Do you have friends there or why did you pick those states. Well I mean there are some pretty places in those states if you like that but not much else. At least I never found the South interesting outside of the mountains when I lived there. Be sure to pack food for the KY trip. On one of our trips there we spent over 3 hrs trying to find a place to eat. We finally found a gas station and bought some peanut butter crackers. We were smack dab in the middle of coal country and every restaurant we found had been closed down, not that we found that many.

I think you are the only one in the world with an American jacket. Certainly never seen an American wearing one. Nobody wears flag shirts except 4th of July weekend. You're more likely to see someone wearing a state shirt.

If you ever decide to come to AZ drop me a line and I will show you around the secrets spots tourists never find out about. Indian Petroglyphs, ruins, secret lakes and other cool places.

No, it was interesting. I knew from somewhere that the U.S.'s first treaty with any other nation was with Morocco, as a result of some sort of pirate activity.

I didn't know that line of that military march came from that.

my collection of flags just got bigger lol...

now mi have 6 big american flags 1 rebel flag and 1 rebel flag with a motorbike on the front of it plus my 2 bandannas and ceasars jacket.

im movin in with Mork who i met from wrongplanet... and im going to paint the bedroom completely with stars and stripes... but i think ill just leave the ceiling alone lol.... here comes the masking tape!

im really lookin forward to my trip to USA aswell and im sure its all beautiful.... i am visiting a few cities whilst im there so it wont all be country....

my question is... would americans be offended if i wore my caesars jacket there?? i wouldent wear the flag for fear of being disloyal to flag etiquette.... but the jacket? can i get away with it??? since its not actualluy a flag or ever been a flag.

I would think that the jacket would fit right in if you were roadtripping on a BIG Harley-Davidson motorcycle.



My hometown (Appleton, WI) has an annual parade (two hours worth of it) on the second Saturday of every June for Flag Day (14-June). No other city has one on that day so they can get a lot of good bands and other units.

But yea, most people here do tend to keep things like that low-key and respectable, but there would be nothing wrong in wearing it.

BTW, H-D is headquartered in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where they have several pre-assembly plants (final assembly is done in York, PA), just over an hour drivetime north of Chicago.

The USA is such a VAST nation and the midwest is the best place, IMHO, to really 'get into' it. Besides checking out the larger cities (ie, Saint Louis, Chicago, Milwaukee), I would head out on a lesser two-lane highway for the day just to pass through some of the smaller cities and villages along the way. Rural scenery between Saint Louis and Chicagoland is pool-table flat most of the way, although it is much hillier and more scenic close to the Mississippi River and points west. Perhaps following the 'Historic Route US 66' signs between Saint Louis and Chicago would be a one great day drive.

If you can make it into Wisconsin, the scenery is gently rolling hills statewide with many lakes, forested areas and small to medium-sized cities, hillier close to the Mississippi River. Very scenic and fun to drive around in.

Also be sure to check out the freshwater Great Lakes. Lake Michigan forms a 'coastline' in Chicago and Milwaukee and you cannot see to the other side, even on a clear night from the Sears Tower Skydeck (103rd floor) in Chicago.

Enjoy!
Mike

Kentucky's a very pretty state to visit (especially the Big South Fork area, which is mostly wilderness), and the one time I passed through Atlanta, Georgia I thought it must be one of the prettiest cities in the world (though that might have just been in comparison to Knoxville Tennessee, which I found somewhat depressing.) The last few years, the population and number of restaurants and so on in Kentucky have increased dramatically, so as long as you don't go too far off the beaten track, that probably won't be a problem (though everything does pretty much close up around here after around 10:00 at night, and some places still stay closed on Sundays!) Although the trip between, say, Virginia and Kentucky might be rather desolate, and so may require careful attention to food and restroom breaks, so be prepared just in case and you'll have nothing to worry about.







I doubt it will be a problem, especially in the area you'll be visiting.

I get the impression that, compared to a lot of people in the world, most Americans are somewhat difficult to offend. So long as you're dressed with reasonable modesty (trousers & shirt / dress, and shoes - the beaches might be different, but fly-over country tends to be a bit conservative about visible skin), and so long as you aren't wearing anything blatantly over the top (like a T-shirt with foul language or nudity on it, or something like that), you'll be just fine.




What might offend? Wearing/displaying the U.S. flag upside-down or backwards would be considered by some people to be bad etiquette or possibly in bad taste, but I doubt anyone would say anything about that... anyone who notices might think to themselves "what's up with that?" I seem to remember that there are some unusual situations where the flag would be flown upside-down (I was told that would only be done if there were "an emergency", but I don't know specifically what that means), and some people would do it as a form of political or social protest; in many of those cases it would be a kind of "punk rock" thing to do, though - like an attempt to deliberately try to provoke someone. And burning the U.S. flag, or throwing it on the ground and stomping on it or something like that, would almost certainly offend at least a few of us, but that's a different situation altogether... in that case you might have several people shout at you and a couple people pat you on the back for it while a handful of other people look at you like you're nuts, but you'd have to try VERY hard to get thrown in jail or roughed up or worse, even over something like that.




But, in this part of the U.S. at least (Kentucky), chances are that wearing a jacket with the American flag (or any other flag) on it will not do much more than perhaps draw a little extra attention, and only because it's a bit unusual. So unless you aren't comfortable with someone staring or asking about it (it might happen - maybe someone might use it as an opportunity to start a conversation), you have nothing to worry about. And, you'd be more likely to get the same reaction by, say, wearing a cowboy hat Like the flag, some people around here do wear them, and, again, it's a bit unusual....