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Hazelwudi
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19 Sep 2006, 9:58 pm

Xuincherguixe wrote:
I don't know what it is about negative reinforcement/punishment that people are so in love with. It get's terrible results, but there are a lot of people that absolutely refuse to recognize this. Then again, it's damaged people damaging others. So I wouldn't go so far as to say it doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense if you're trying to effectively solve behavoir problems.


Doling out punishment is often self-reinforcing for the person doing the punishing. Not just in terms of the pleasure many people experience in weilding power, but often whatever it was that was annoying you immediately ceases, at least for a short time.

Unfortunately for many teachers, the main problem they're concerned with is that they were inconvenienced, not the problematic interaction between the students. :(



nirrti_rachelle
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19 Sep 2006, 10:55 pm

Hazelwudi wrote:
Unfortunately for many teachers, the main problem they're concerned with is that they were inconvenienced, not the problematic interaction between the students. :(


Well, isn't that what we pay tax dollars to them for, to be "inconvenienced"? I guess they view the child that's an easy target for bullies as a potential hardship since they now have to actually get involved with protecting him rather than being lazy about looking after their students. So they punish the bullied kid for making them have to get off their butts and do something. Uggghh! This royally p*sses me off! :x


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PrisonerSix
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20 Sep 2006, 12:11 pm

Corcovado wrote:
It was a long post but well-written and funny, lol. Thanks for sharing. Being female my schoolyears were more quiet bullying.

I did however have a similar snowball-incident.

At this time I was in my thirties. One kid were I lived, with really bad manners, threw a snowball at me. I also thought it was for fun so I, like you, threw one right back. I don't know if it was the fact that I hit him, but he got furious and ran towards me throwing snowballs all over the place.

I thought this was curoius, I am a grown woman he is an eleven year old kid, why is he attacking me? When I was eleven I would never attack an adult.

A couple of weeks later I saw him and a friend in the distance, and you now, the idiot start throwing small rocks at me! I decided if I wanted this to end I had to take action, and started walking towards him who continued to throw rocks at me. Luckily he got scared and ran, calling me names. I never had trouble with him again.


I always wondered if girls bullied each other. That was a problem my parents had with my being bullied; I had a sister who was less than 1.5 years older than I was and she didn't get harassed in school the way I did. They thought it was something wrong with me and that I should be more like my sister, but I could never figure out what I did that was so wrong to bring all of this on me.


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PrisonerSix
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20 Sep 2006, 12:26 pm

Hazelwudi wrote:
Most adults who work with children mainly just don't want to be bothered. It doesn't matter what the kids are doing, so long as they can turn a blind eye to it and pretend it isn't their problem.

One wonders what your average teacher would do in the following scenario...

She's out shopping somewhere one day, and gets hit over the head and her purse stolen. She tells the police what happened, and they yawn, look totally uninterested, and say, "We didn't see it happen." Upon insisting that it did happen, she'd be told to "take care of the problem by talking to the guy."

Yes, can you imagine how angry and let down by she'd feel? Why does she imagine that children feel any differently, when constantly set upon by child-sized criminals, who beat them up, steal their things, and so on?

And why does she imagine that children deserve any less protection than she does, herself?

And remember... we're the ones who supposedly lack empathy. Irony....


I agree with you there. In the adult world if these kids behaved this way, there would be recourse against them but in a child's world, there isn't. School is supposed to prepare someone for the "real world," yet when it comes to rules, it doesn't even come close.

I can think of such an incident that happened to me. One time, I kid started hurling insults at me during lunch so I said something back to him. He was bigger than me and he attacked me later just before P.E. class started. I did report the incident and the person I reported it to said "If I stopped to take care of you everytime someone hit you I'd spend my life taking care of you." This was a private school, where discipline is supposed to be better than public school which in my experience, discipline is usually just as bad. My experience with private schools is the worse the school's financial situation, the more lax the discipline is. Basically if a school can't keep students, it takes alot to get them to discipline since it could cost them a student while a school that has a waiting list of students trying to get in would suspend or expel a student in a heartbeat, since if they lose a student today they can have a new student in the next day.


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Fraya
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20 Sep 2006, 12:50 pm

In my experience girls bullying each other is just as common as guys.

The difference is girls dont usually go for physical violence, instead opting for psychological warfare.

Why beat someone up to embarass them when you can simply manipulate them and the situation to cause them embarassment?

Hence its more commonly overlooked and (among NTs at least) more traumatic in the long run.


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Corcovado
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20 Sep 2006, 2:12 pm

Yeah, that's the way it was. I remember these three girls, sometimes they would pull you in, pretending to be your friend (and you were so greatfull to finally have friends) just to embarress or humiliate you in some fancy way.

Like the time they were oh so friendly and walked me out to my bicycle only because they wanted to see my face when I discovered they had punctured both tires. Then they laughed and ran away.

I don't know which is more harmfull. Neither is nice.



PrisonerSix
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20 Sep 2006, 4:01 pm

Fraya wrote:
In my experience girls bullying each other is just as common as guys.

The difference is girls dont usually go for physical violence, instead opting for psychological warfare.

Why beat someone up to embarass them when you can simply manipulate them and the situation to cause them embarassment?

Hence its more commonly overlooked and (among NTs at least) more traumatic in the long run.


The boys I knew went for both types of abuse and like you, I think the psychological abuse is worse.


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