Apparently I never had AS to begin with...

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thanks for your detailed report, which in some ways, i can't imagine a nt being so introspective, just a guess, the appearance of this trend in this forum i.e. those who describe their life in so detailed ways could be classified as aspie immediately.

Indeed a belief is that aspie have similar wants to nts or so to speak, but the success rate is harder/ impossible.



Indeed labelling oneself/ or being labelled an aspie, is it good however if that person who constantly claims to be an aspie, when he/she is not... if over time the person feels that and there is no reason to give any label...

Giving oneself the label is the indication that problems are present, the cause though might not be aspergers, could be just anxiety, nobody knows. clearly again no sane nt will be labelling themselves/ or being allowed to be labelled as aspies - and feeling depressed as a result if their life is good, no issues whatsoever. Indeed all the aspie traits are hard to fulfill, but some major trends might be the same, no aspie bothers to do research.



the paradox is true, indeed not claiming to be an aspie, will make the person fit more easily into society unconsciously, give the person more hope but that doesn't mean he/she is not an aspie by nature.

Yeah, your situation is a lot different from my own so it is hard to make anything more than educated guesses.

All I can think of is to think through it all as logically as you can.

Do you believe that people are born with Autism for the most part?

Do you, after reading and understanding as best you can, think you fit enough of the symptoms as a child?

Do you agree with the sentiment that once you have Autism in any form, it doesn't just go away, even if you can learn to adapt and cope?

If you can answer "Yes" to all the above questions, what conclusion do you draw from them?

If you don't think you can answer "Yes" to any or all of them, then you probably are looking at making some serious adjustments in how you view yourself.

I'm not trying to sway you either way, just trying to help you reach your own conclusion, irrespective of what "everyone else" is telling you. No one knows YOU better than YOU, if you take the time to get to know yourself well. Having other people's perspectives can help, but you've GOT to consider what their motivations are.

For example, you said your parents have a problem with labels. Does that play into whether they would admit that you fit? I'm asking, not implying anything. At least not intentionally. You know your parents better than we do.

Anyway, if it were me, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everything all the others thought they were seeing who did think you were on spectrum.

Take your time with this. Digest it all slowly. Think about what YOU think. Sometimes I think we, even those of us on the spectrum, spend too much time concerning ourselves with what others think we are or should be.

On a related note, I'm just wondering.

1). I've noticed that when you took the AQ test in July, you scored 23. Just recently, in the Ultimate Questionnaire thread, you have posted that your AQ score is 41. I wonder why there was such a sudden change in the scores? Perhaps the test score won't prove anything at all because the test itself is bogus. But I think that the disparity in the scores demonstrates that your perception of yourself keeps fluctuating.

2) In the "Autism Stereotypes" thread, you said that you have never stimmed. I clearly remember you saying that you have flapped your hands as a kid. I've also seen you bounce your leg more than usual and stand on your toes, which might count as a stim. Although that could also be caused by anxiety, I wonder if you are failing to exclude some of the specific behaviours that you do for a more global picture that might be swayed by your feelings about yourself.

I do think you manifest some symptoms and not the full picture, knowing you now. However, I wonder about your childhood history and what the psychiatrist thinks of that. You have previously described yourself in your childhood as being "textbook AS", along with a description of very autistic behaviours. Does your psychiatrist have anything to say about those specific behaviours? Was there anything about you as a child that was different from a typical, or expected, mainfestation of symptoms in someone who does qualify for the diagnosis?

How much money have you paid this quack?

Now you know. I was...and still am...shocked and appalled that this is still going on, and is not widely talked about in the disability community. I agree in that while there is some value in accomodating someone without a diagnosis, they need to do so without global labels.

I would be interested to further know the girl at your high school and see how she is actually faring through life today. She seems like she has been a victim of this mislabelling as well, but I would not know for sure until I studied her for a bit and got a picture of what her behaviours were. I'll take your word for it that she may be in the same situation as I am.

I'm interested as to who still thinks I'm on the spectrum and why. Like I said, I don't doubt that I'm still on the spectrum, and I don't doubt that I do have some traits, so I would probably agree with them depending on what they say. My argument, though, is that I think it's still possible to be on the spectrum and have traits that warrant a sub-clinical diagnosis.

Completely agreed! And in some cases, once a label is set, all other possiblities for what the person really has are ruled out.

There is no sharp line between AS and off the official spectrum, there is an overlap between AS and BAP.

I have an aspie friend who is extremely popular. Tons of friends, though gets a bit overwhelmed by them all...

Anyway I just want to put the idea out there that some aspies are very social. We dont all have our noses in books at all times....

Last edited by zen_mistress on 10 Nov 2011, 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hmm, those are good questions.

1) That's my perception as to why they change too. Since it's a self-report, and my perception of myself is very unsteady, it would only make sense that there would be such a disparity in my test scores.

2) This was the same question I've asked my psychiatrist on more than one occasion. I bounce my legs quite a lot when I am anxious or edgy, but for the longest time I was wondering whether it was a stim or not. She has told me that the nature of my shaking is more characteristic of an anxiety disorder than an ASD, because it is definitely socially rooted, and I will only do it when I am around other people. I have shaken my legs while talking to her numerous times, so she has had an opportunity to see it.

http://www.socialanxiety.co.uk/blog/shaking-and-tension

I also have developed uncontrollable, but very slight tremors in my hands at times, and she said that, again, this is caused by anxiety.

The standing on my toes thing I do occasionally, and have done ever since I was a kid (though I did it obviously & substantially more as a kid). I know it is a sensory thing, so that may count as a stim...if so, it's the only one I still have.

As for flapping my hands, it was all about the degree in which I did it. I clearly remember doing it only once or twice as a kid, so it was not something I did on a regular basis or even occasionally. My parents have said that other than standing on my toes, they have never seen me stim.

As for my childhood history, as I mentioned in the thread, she kept noticing how hyped up the language the reports from my childhood history, and the contrast between the views of my parents & the specialists (there's only minor issues) to those of my teachers (she has serious issues). Due to the wording of my reports and the fact that I had sensory issues, strong interests, a need for routine, and odd social skills, I did believe that I was a textbook case. Now, although I still believe I had issues and problems related to social and emotional functioning that merited attention, I am not sure if these were significant enough for warrant an official diagnosis of AS. It's not only about if the traits are displayed, but if they are present to a significant degree.

I have several friends/acquaintances who have a diagnosis of social anxiety but are not on the autism spectrum. They are all very introspective, similarly to anneurysm. What I find fascinating is that out of all the people at the social events I've attended, I've somehow ended up talking and connecting with them. All of them are at least slightly older than me, yet they're somehow different even from most other adults I have encountered. I feel that our deep introspection and our detailed analysis of the world is what binds us together. I have read a study that examined people with social anxiety and found varying levels of "social skills deficits" in people with social anxiety. I wonder if this is why people with social anxiety tend to introspect more and gravitate more toward solitary pursuits, such as arts or academics, instead of spending time socializing. Although my experience is limited and these conclusions are only vaguely based on scientific research, I wonder if one could say that people with social anxiety (or another anxiety disorder that encompasses a social anxiety component) could be considered to be in the middle of the autistic-neurotypical continuum.

As a side note, I have an acquaintance with social anxiety whom I've met through a party that an autistic acquaintance of mine hosted. She acts as a sort of a mentor to him; they frequently hang out together and do different fun social activities. During a later conversation on our own terms, she told me that she has always felt more comfortable around people on the spectrum. However, she definitely isn't on the spectrum herself; she can fit well into the NT world, too, and she never saw herself as being on the spectrum, either. And to anneurysm, you actually remind me of some of my friends/acquaintances with social anxiety. They, too, seem to have certain autistic-like traits, yet not the full picture. Just like them, I find you very mature, introspective, and insightful. And while some of the ways you spoke in generalities and you assumed my intentions have irritated me in the past, at least when talking to you online, I find you way easier and more enjoyable to interact with than I find it with most people around my age.

I'm actually one of those "really social" aspies. While I like alone time once in a while, spending too much time indoors without talking to anyone makes me sick. I really enjoy being around people I feel comfortable with.

^ MathGirl, that is a really interesting observation.

I have always been wondering if people with social anxiety based disorders, and even general anxiety (what I have recently been diagnosed with) are on the spectrum somewhat as well, and your observation above makes me want to explore this possibility further.

If one is feeling out of place among "normal" people, there must be a basis, or series of events, that generated this anxiety. While disorders like anxiety emerge by having biological factors in place, usually there are experiences during childhood that trigger its onset at a later age. Mine came from negative reactions caused by teachers and non-open minded peers. The continual teasing, bullying, and misconceptions caused me to hide away from the world until the last year of high school. I wonder, upon talking to others with social anxiety, such as the people you know, I would be able to identify any common experiences. Supposing that they are as introspective and insighful as well, I'm sure they would be able to have some and articulate them well.

I'm going to research this a little more...I can't believe this is not investigated further either...it could save a lot of people from misdiagnosis and identity questioning. If you can remember the study you mentioned, feel free to forward it to me as well.

Was just going to bring up the example of MathGirl in response to this. She is an incredibly social aspie (maybe the most social one I have met) and a clear extrovert.

This is a very interesting thread, and many of you have known each other for a long time, so I don't think I can get involved in the detail of it. I'm pleased about MathGirl's insight into NTs with social anxiety though, and the "loner NT"/"sociable Aspies" conundrum. Not labels, more shorthand. My pursuits are in the main solitary ones (reading, gardening etc). I too seem to feel more comfortable around people on the spectrum than with many of my so called (NT) peers.

I took many of the online tests and got AQ23, A balanced EQ-SQR, Aspie 69/200/NT144/200 and BAPQ scores of 104 aloof, 87 rigid, 60 pragmatic. Go figure, as they say in the U. S.

I think having labels applied to you in childhood (medical or otherwise) definitely influences your development. Either like a self fulfilling prophecy or because one tries to prove the opposite. 

As a child people often said to me, why are you looking so angry, when I was just feeling  averagely non descript. I now think this partly to do with having a slightly masculine brow as well as expectations of femininity even as a child. But I can assure you I did eventually get and look angry having been repeatedly asked this.