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davidalan11235813
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15 Nov 2011, 8:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
Okay, so how about a link to the study that says people with AS are more likely to be "confused" about their gender than NTs?

I have no such confusion, and I have AS.


That's in no way contradictory to what he claimed. He never made the claim that all, or even most AS individuals are transgender, just that a larger percentage of AS individuals are transgender than NT individuals, so the fact that you posses no apparent degree of gender dysphoria has no bearing on this argument. Nobody ever claimed causation either. And as for a link, I believe someone else already provided that.

As for myself, I don't feel that I'm the opposite gender psychologically, but I don't feel particularly attached to my biological gender either. I guess I'm more gender apathetic than anything else.



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15 Nov 2011, 8:19 pm

davidalan11235813 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
Okay, so how about a link to the study that says people with AS are more likely to be "confused" about their gender than NTs?

I have no such confusion, and I have AS.


That's in no way contradictory to what he claimed. He never made the claim that all, or even most AS individuals are transgender, just that a larger percentage of AS individuals are transgender than NT individuals, so the fact that you posses no apparent degree of gender dysphoria has no bearing on this argument. Nobody ever claimed causation either. And as for a link, I believe someone else already provided that.

As for myself, I don't feel that I'm the opposite gender psychologically, but I don't feel particularly attached to my biological gender either. I guess I'm more gender apathetic than anything else.


What is in no way contradictory to what who claimed? I don't know what you mean by "That's" or "what" he claimed, or who "he" is. Who and what are you referring to?

If you were addressing me, and my reply to Fnord's claim,

Quote:
Correlation = Coincidence


By definition that is incorrect. Correlation by definition is not coincidental. His own quote from Merriam-Webster bears that out.


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davidalan11235813
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15 Nov 2011, 8:24 pm

MrXxx wrote:
davidalan11235813 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
Okay, so how about a link to the study that says people with AS are more likely to be "confused" about their gender than NTs?

I have no such confusion, and I have AS.


That's in no way contradictory to what he claimed. He never made the claim that all, or even most AS individuals are transgender, just that a larger percentage of AS individuals are transgender than NT individuals, so the fact that you posses no apparent degree of gender dysphoria has no bearing on this argument. Nobody ever claimed causation either. And as for a link, I believe someone else already provided that.

As for myself, I don't feel that I'm the opposite gender psychologically, but I don't feel particularly attached to my biological gender either. I guess I'm more gender apathetic than anything else.


What is in no way contradictory to what who claimed? I don't know what you mean by "That's" or "what" he claimed, or who "he" is. Who and what are you referring to?

If you were addressing me, and my reply to Fnord's claim,

Quote:
Correlation = Coincidence


By definition that is incorrect. Correlation by definition is not coincidental. His own quote from Merriam-Webster bears that out.


I was stating that the fact that he isn't "confused" is not contradictory to your claim that there is a correlation between AS and transgender...



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15 Nov 2011, 8:26 pm

So where is that evidence I asked for?


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15 Nov 2011, 8:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
So where is that evidence I asked for?


Sorry man. I was only addressing the Correlation issue. Statistics just happen to be one of my side interests so that caught my eye. I know of no study, and the actual topic here doesn't really interest me enough to go any further.

I believe Verdandi posted some relevant links on the first page of this thread, but no idea if they're what your asking for.


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15 Nov 2011, 9:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
So where is that evidence I asked for?


I already posted links to it. In the past, your response to those links was way off base:

Fnord wrote:
Possible Link Between ASD's and Transgenderism?

No.

6% is practically nothing, as it is well below the level of simple random chance (50%).

60% would be significant, however...


This alludes to previous research but is really a case study: http://galileoace.com/Docs/GID_ASD.pdf

This study is relevant but despite its age is apparently not freely available or I'm misreading something:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract

Quote:
Summary The Michigan Gender Identity Test (MGIT) was administered to 30 autistic children to determine whether autistic children could demonstrate a sense of gender identity. The results of the MGIT were correlated with other developmental indices obtained from the AlpernBoll Developmental Profile. From this sample of autistics, a significant relationship was found between gender identity and mental age, chronological age, communication skills, physical skills, social skills, self-help skills and academic (cognitive) skills.


It seems to me that if autism impacts gender identity, than a relationship between being gender variant in some way (not just transgender) and being autistic is practically unavoidable.



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15 Nov 2011, 10:27 pm

Association, yeah. Correlation just means that the two things occur together; there's no way to tell if there's a cause and effect relationship, and if so, which way it goes.

You can say "Autistic people are more likely to be transgendered."

But you can't say, "Autism causes gender dysphoria."

6% isn't "nothing". The general population is on the Spectrum at a rate of 1:100. The transgendered population is on the Spectrum at a rate of 1:17. Depending on the sample size (and it wouldn't need to be a very big sample size, either), it is very likely a significant difference. Actually, my statistics-oriented brain just did the numbers and came up with a sample size of 16... If you found that extreme a difference in that sample, you could say with 95% confidence that a higher proportion of transgendered people are autistic.


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15 Nov 2011, 10:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
No, a higher percentage of aspies are transgender than NTs are. There definitely seems to be some correlation, just not necessarily very strong correlation.

Correlation = Coincidence

I'd like to see someone else provide a link to some real, vetted research on this subject.


Actually correlation does not = coincidence.....