NTs going out their way to avoid being ''laughed at''

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Well I doubt I would be embarrased about carrying pillows on to the bus, but I can understand not wanting to be laughed at....it is quite unpleasent to be the butt of other peoples jokes.

I agree, if someone is going to use your own insecurities against you, it's generally because they have a low self esteem themselves or it's the only way they can feel a sense of superiority over someone. In some cases, people who were bullied turn into bullies when they start to fit in and they use fear and violence to earn respect because they could never truly achieve respect from their peers by other means.



I'm very surprised by this and it's nothing like that in the United Kingdom, when I used to get the bus, if an elderly person or a person who looked less competent was standing up, I would offer them my seat if the bus was full.

i dont understand the need to conform but i do understand the need to not be bullied for ones differences but not the need to cave in. i'm really sick of it actually- why do people care what random strangers will think of them, they will never see them again. i hate it when people try use the fact that they might be embarrassed to change my behaviour. "don't wear black- people will think you're and emo", "why are you dressed so casually? people will laugh at you", "you cant go out with hair like that- you are not my daughter", "why cant you walk like a normal person?" its, like, get over your self- nobody cares least of all me.

Well I suffer greatly from Social Phobia, and now it has reached a point where I need therapy. I constantly worry about what other people think all the time; I feel I am being watched all the time, and any little thing I do is noticed by everybody, and that other women are judging me, and I just feel I am doing something wrong all the time, even though I know I am not doing anything notably different to anyone else. I fear humiliation and rejection, and I'm not kidding.

Here's a list of all the things I fear because of social embarrassment:-
Snow and ice because of slipping over in front of everybody
Wasps keep hovering around my head when I'm in a big crowd of people
Leaves or bugs getting stuck in my hair or on my clothes where I can't see them
Having the runs in a public toilet
Tripping over a crack in the ground
Being turfed off a bench for some reason (that has happened before, and everybody looked at me when I had to get up)
Being confronted by bitchy girls (this has happened to me too, right in the middle of a supermarket)
Going into blank mode when doing things like using a self-service till (this usually happens if I know other people are waiting and probably watching)
Object blindness - hunting around for something that is standing right in front of me (this also happens if I know I am in other people's sight)
Being yelled at in front of everyone
Smelling a fart smell when I'm a big crowd because I fear that everyone would think it's me
The alarm going off in a shop when I come out, even though I know I've paid

Like they say, it's not so embarrassing if you're a very confident person who doesn't care what others think and who don't get sensitive to too many eyes looking at you, and that you only care about how you are going to get out of the situation, not of what everyone else is thinking. Sadly not many people are like this - the vast majority of people (mostly women) do get embarrassed in these situations, so you can imagine how a person with Social Anxiety would feel in these situations (like me). And the worse part is, I've found out that the more you are socially anxious and/or phobic, the more these things are going to happen to you. And when you're somebody with Social Phobia AND Asperger's Syndrome, you give off the wrong reaction too which embarrasses you more, and then you are showing your weakness and everybody just laughs and you feel even more silly. It is so horrible. And if NTs had any empathy at all, they wouldn't stare at such a helplessly nervous person so much because they should know that it embarrasses them even more and that nobody likes being in that situation. So, think again those of you who think NTs have empathy!! !! !! !! !! !!

But strangely enough, I don't feel humiliated when carrying big things onto a bus. It's not really that bad. Falling over whilst getting onto the bus is bad for a Socially Phobic person. Treading on someone's toe is bad for a Socially Phobic person. Getting smacked in the face by someone else's big luggage is bad for a Socially Phobic person. But I don't think carrying big things onto a bus is embarrassing because people do it all the time, and the car ensurance is going up here so some people haven't got any choice but to drag their shopping onto the bus.

I understand conformity to keep a job, to get a raise, you know negotiating with the system in order to get a payoff.

I don't understand why people attach intrinsic value to conformity itself or to image itself. Image is pointless if you can't benefit from it whether that's cashing in on it, helping your family make more money, or setting an example that if society copies will lead to more peace, stability, and freedom.

I remember in sociology they said people are going after "power", "property" and "prestige". I just want to live. My motivation is secure myself, enjoy myself, expand my knowledge and awareness. I can see the value of conformity as a means to an end but not an end itself.

I notice when I share my beliefs about things people's automatic assumption is that I will openly apply them everywhere I go. People will respond with "How are you going to hold down a job with that attitude". People make an a priori assumption that in order to conform to these things you have to internalize it, that you have to actually agree on the inside.

I think it has to do with cognitive dissonance. People feel uncomfortable admitting they are putting on a show so they lie to themselves. I don't like to lie to other people, but I will lie to others before I ever lie to myself. I conform externally(when necessary) so I don't have to conform internally. NTs fool themselves into thinking they just "matured" or "changed their minds" or "got new values" in order to not feel bad about conforming. I amuse myself turning situations where I must externally conform into elaborate acting rituals, imagining I am in Hollywood performing for a movie. That way not only do I not have to feel uncomfortable and keep my inner self the same I can enjoy myself.

It's not an NT thing. It's a self awareness/self esteem thing.

I do believe in conforming on the inside in a way, but that is with the only rational thing to conform to, Reality, Science, the Universe, Survival, Evolution. You get the gist of it. People often act like our society is above the Universe, especially with moral issues and even politics. The consequence is that people think it's impossible to improve upon their values and so don't try. Moral Relativism has good intentions.

I believe right and wrong can be derived from evolution. Some will argue well that's just rationality not morality. Morality is a word that is used quite often in society, I might as well use it to mean something real. For me I use "Morality" to mean "Rationality". Someone else may use the term in other ways which, so I'm keeping an open-mind.

I also recognize that sometimes considerations for the future which can be made ahead of time or made in the moment for minor things you figure aren't that important it might make sense to actually conform rather than just fake it in order to practice but this is another decision to be made in rational interest.

Last edited by DGuru on 30 Nov 2011, 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well I understand that conformity is important to a certain extent. But it's now gone a bit far, and it's all turned into greed and everybody's gotten so competitive. We've lived in my house for 20 years, and at first we had lovely neighbours, but throughout the 20 years things have changed - some of the neighbours have moved away, others have got unfriendly, and there are new families who have moved in who don't give us the time of day. They are snobby people who have bought their houses and are doing them up, and the rest of the neighbourhood has followed them because they are afraid of having less than these snobby people. I actually live in a council house because we can't afford to buy our house, but it has all turned my mum into a nervous wreck. She is always yelling at my dad to get people he knows to build a nice fence in our front garden, get the house re-painted....all because she is worried of what these snobs will think. It's all gotten too far.

The UK is right in the middle of a financial meltdown, with people losing their jobs and their homes and having less money, but we're still all expected to wear fashionable clothes, have fancy hairstyles, drive cars, etc, otherwise there is all this thread of ''people might look'' crap. Ohhh, it all gets on my tits!

Anyone notice the irony in the thread title?


I think this is more of a personal thing than an NT thing. My ex's were like this. They cared too much what people thought of them but yet my first one would b***h about how people judge him based on his trench coat he had on. I told him to stop wearing it then and he said no because "it's who he is" so I told him so wear it only at home and around his friends, not out in public and he still refused and said that be "ret*d." So I told him to stop complaining then if he won't do a thing about it or just stop caring what people think if he wants to keep wearing that coat. He can't have it both ways.

Laughing at each other is how NT's bully each other into conformity.

^^^ This is it. Joe90, your friend is being a bit strange about this. I agree with one previous poster that age comes into it too. Once >30 many people care less about others think of them. I'm > 40 so care much less what others think of me than I used to. I do care about what others think somewhat, like at work etc, but much less where random strangers on public transport are concerned.

You fear these because you know it brings attention which puts you in an awkward position. And yes, it is all down to confidence. People who are more confident will still get a little embarrassed in their own way, but are able to deal with it a bit better. I know it sounds unfair, but people tend to look at more how the person in the awkward situation is reacting, more so than the actual situation.
My advice is to take it slow. Don't go all quick and flittery as though it's the end of the world. I know being the centre of attention is uncomfrtable, but just stay calm and cool and people will soon grow bored of looking. If you act more nervous, people will look more because seeing someone reacting awkwardly would be more amusing.
If something happened like an alarm going off in a shop when you're walking out, just calmly stop, look at the item, look up at the nearest worker (there is usually a security gaurd of some sort standing by the doors), and just keep relaxed. Make more eye contact too. The more you make eye contact, the more you look confident. I know it's hard to look up when lots of people are looking, but once you have looked at them, you know that you have accomplished a fear. If you look down, you would feel and look even more embarrassed and possibly even guilty.