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Guineapigged
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30 Dec 2011, 5:31 pm

I've been on, off the top of my head; citalopram, sertraline, escitalopram, buspirone, carbemazapine, reboxetine, and I'm currently on high doses of venlefaxine and mirtazipine.
I can't honestly say any of them have worked because I'm still chronically depressed.



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30 Dec 2011, 5:35 pm

I don't care for antidepessants or antipsychotics at all. None of those drugs did anything to help with executive function or lower my sensory iissues. I take Concerta and Adderall for ADHD, but they only last for eight and three hours, respectively. And you don't need them constantly in your bloodstream to get a therapeutic effect. They start working within the hour, and after they wear off I'm back to my hyperactive, inattentive self. No harm done. Except for a headache the first week or so, but that wasn't too bad.



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30 Dec 2011, 5:41 pm

Dunnyveg wrote:
ghostar wrote:
Dunnyveg, does the ginseng also seem to help with blood-sugar regulation that you have noticed?

If my blood sugar is too low or too high, I am not able to deal with much of anything. So far, B-vitamins are the best thing I have found to help stabilize my blood sugar...othe than avoidng processed foods that is.


Absolutely. I have a friend who has diabetes. He has gotten completely off his medications with it.

One thing it does for me, besides helping to stabilize my mood, is it helps me with my allergies. When they get really bad, they must do something to my blood sugar, as I get shaky. The ginseng makes me feel human again. It gives me natural-feeling energy.

I've got the impression you're Canadian. If so, "American" ginseng actually grows wild in southern Canada, as well as the upper US Midwest.


This is great info. I will buy some from my herbal supply store in town. We are lucky to have a really good supplier.

Also, I live in Idaho so close to Canada but still technically the U.S.. :D



whiteofmouth
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30 Dec 2011, 5:41 pm

Dunnyveg wrote:
whiteofmouth wrote:
Not sure if this helps you, but of everything I've tried seems like a regimented dose of cannabis and ginseng tea have been the most reliable stabilizers for me. When my time was less tied, I used to ride bicycles competitively and that exercise helped a ton. Also, I stay way clear of caffeinated coffee.


I've never had ginseng tea. I buy sliced roots and eat them like they are hard candy; I just had a couple of slices. I've found the best roots are woods-grown American gingseng, though Korean is okay. Ginseng can be cultivated, and usually is. The problem is the roots start to deteriorate after about six years. Woods-grown ginseng is simulated wild ginseng, and the roots can get ten to twelve years old before they start to deteriorate. The older the roots, the more potent the ginseng, and the more expensive it is.

The one reason I'd want to live up north would be ginseng. It grows wild in the colder regions. The wild roots are almost priceless; they can get up to a hundred years old without deteriorating. I'd be out looking high and low for them:)


To be fair it's ginseng oolong tea (also called 'blue people'). I have my buddy bring back a quarter pound every time he makes a trip to China. I'll have to look into eating slices of the actual root... as far as I can tell it contributes to my ability to multitask and my overall awareness. Although I guess there are differences in Siberian/American ginseng versus Chinese/Korean ginseng?



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30 Dec 2011, 5:48 pm

bumble wrote:
ghostar wrote:
Oh yeah I have experience with meds! In graduate school, I started to really lose it (this was 2005) so the University Doctor put me on Klonopin for anxiety and Zoloft for axiety/depression.

Next was Paxil...then Effexor...then Citolopram plus ativan...then Zyprexa (an antipsychotic that caused me to gain 45 lbs in 6 weeks and it made me a zombie)...then Wellbutrin...and those are just for the anxiety.

For sleep during this same time period, I took Lunesta, Ambien, Trazadone, Amytripteline (sp?), Xanax, and Sonata. All were bad news for my day-time cognitive abilities...not to mention sleep walking, sleep eating, sleep drinking...hell I even woke up one morning to realize that I had shampooed all the carpets in my apartment the night before! (I didn't mind that one so much. :D )

Finally in late 2007, I went on Prozac (80mg/day) with ativan as-needed and that worked okay for a year and a half or so. Now I take nothing except for ativan when I am having a meltdown.

Overall I would have to say that the drugs kept me from killing myself because I was too doped up to even find a gun, much less pick it up, load it, and pull the trigger. That being said, I am doing much better now that I don't take them.

I exercise A LOT instead and that seems to work for me. And I don't eat wheat anymore...it makes me far more melt-down prone and tired. Another thing that has helped me is taking melatonin supplements at bedtime. My dreams are wild but I like them that way so I don't mind.


I tried a gluten free diet for a while and am considering going back on it. Although I mostly went on it to reduce abdominal bloating and problems that I was getting I did find that I became much calmer without it. It did seem to impact my mood. The reason that I came off the gluten free diet was because I had some blood tests done at the drs to find out if there was a cause for the fatigue, diarrhoea and stomach upsets I was having problems with. One of the blood tests was for celiac disease (as I have a close family member who is diagnosed with it) but they all came back ok so I figured I must be fine with wheat. I have relatives with just about everything I think lol (there is diabetes, cancer, celiac disease, rheumatoid (sp?) arthritis, IBS, Depression, Anxiety, Dyslexia and so on lol)

Since being back on wheat the IBS they diagnosed me with is 10 times worse, my stomach is constantly bloated, my acid reflux is back and I just am not as calm as I was off the stuff. For that reason I was planning on eating up all the wheat products I have in and going back on a gluten free whole food diet (I take most processed foods out as well due to possible cross contamination).

I know I tested negative with the blood tests for celiac disease but my body still does not seem to like wheat! I have always had a bloated gut even before I got the IBS and being off wheat was the only time I have known that bloating to go down. Now its bloated constantly again :(


I am not a Celiac and can tolerate other grains containing gluten (like rye for instance) but wheat specifically causes a host of problems including IBS, headaches, light-sensitivity, asthma, and eventually massive rashes of hives and eczema/psoriasis if I eat it frequently.

I love pizza but it just isn't effing worth it these days! 8O



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30 Dec 2011, 5:58 pm

ghostar wrote:
bumble wrote:
ghostar wrote:
Oh yeah I have experience with meds! In graduate school, I started to really lose it (this was 2005) so the University Doctor put me on Klonopin for anxiety and Zoloft for axiety/depression.

Next was Paxil...then Effexor...then Citolopram plus ativan...then Zyprexa (an antipsychotic that caused me to gain 45 lbs in 6 weeks and it made me a zombie)...then Wellbutrin...and those are just for the anxiety.

For sleep during this same time period, I took Lunesta, Ambien, Trazadone, Amytripteline (sp?), Xanax, and Sonata. All were bad news for my day-time cognitive abilities...not to mention sleep walking, sleep eating, sleep drinking...hell I even woke up one morning to realize that I had shampooed all the carpets in my apartment the night before! (I didn't mind that one so much. :D )

Finally in late 2007, I went on Prozac (80mg/day) with ativan as-needed and that worked okay for a year and a half or so. Now I take nothing except for ativan when I am having a meltdown.

Overall I would have to say that the drugs kept me from killing myself because I was too doped up to even find a gun, much less pick it up, load it, and pull the trigger. That being said, I am doing much better now that I don't take them.

I exercise A LOT instead and that seems to work for me. And I don't eat wheat anymore...it makes me far more melt-down prone and tired. Another thing that has helped me is taking melatonin supplements at bedtime. My dreams are wild but I like them that way so I don't mind.


I tried a gluten free diet for a while and am considering going back on it. Although I mostly went on it to reduce abdominal bloating and problems that I was getting I did find that I became much calmer without it. It did seem to impact my mood. The reason that I came off the gluten free diet was because I had some blood tests done at the drs to find out if there was a cause for the fatigue, diarrhoea and stomach upsets I was having problems with. One of the blood tests was for celiac disease (as I have a close family member who is diagnosed with it) but they all came back ok so I figured I must be fine with wheat. I have relatives with just about everything I think lol (there is diabetes, cancer, celiac disease, rheumatoid (sp?) arthritis, IBS, Depression, Anxiety, Dyslexia and so on lol)

Since being back on wheat the IBS they diagnosed me with is 10 times worse, my stomach is constantly bloated, my acid reflux is back and I just am not as calm as I was off the stuff. For that reason I was planning on eating up all the wheat products I have in and going back on a gluten free whole food diet (I take most processed foods out as well due to possible cross contamination).

I know I tested negative with the blood tests for celiac disease but my body still does not seem to like wheat! I have always had a bloated gut even before I got the IBS and being off wheat was the only time I have known that bloating to go down. Now its bloated constantly again :(


I am not a Celiac and can tolerate other grains containing gluten (like rye for instance) but wheat specifically causes a host of problems including IBS, headaches, light-sensitivity, asthma, and eventually massive rashes of hives and eczema/psoriasis if I eat it frequently.

I love pizza but it just isn't effing worth it these days! 8O


When I went gluten free I started out just removing gluten from wheat but then found I was getting problems with corn as well so then I removed that. I also found that my stomach disliked too much dairy (altough I was ok with small amounts and bio yoghurt) so that was mostly taken out also. I basically ended up on a modified version of the paleo diet which was all meat, vegetables, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes or parsnips or butternut squash, rice (as that has never upset me) and with limited chocolate as a treat if I could find a gluten free bar. I lost weight on that too, but put it back on when I went back on wheat though (it doesn't half put weight on me..how I don't know because my food goes straight through me some days).

I am probably going to get back on my modified paleo diet just as soon as I've eaten up all the noodles I have in cupboard etc.

I had a load more energy on that diet than I have now! I also noticed that every time i ate wheat (even if by accident) I would be in a terribly bad mood for hours afterwards! People say it can't affect your moods but I am not so sure!



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30 Dec 2011, 6:00 pm

bumble wrote:
IdahoRose wrote:
I've been prescribed Xanax for anxiety, Lexapro for OCD and Risperidone for bad/psychotic thoughts. I've been on all these medications since I was 14, and they have been like miracle drugs for me. They have made it possible to function without any noticeable side effects.

However, I'm beginning to think that Risperidone isn't working for me anymore, because my bad thoughts have come back and I have been experiencing hallucinations and pseudo-hallucinations with increasing frequency since mid-late summer. Additionally, when I first began to take Risperidone, it made me so drowsy that I took it at night so that it cured my insomnia. It used to only take me 30 to 45 minutes to fall asleep. Nowadays it takes me an hour and a half to 2 hours every night to fall asleep.


What are pseudo-hallucinations?

They're basically hallucinations that you know aren't real - that seem to come from within rather than happening in the world outside you. This is in contrast to a regular hallucination, which appears (or sounds like) it's happening in the real world and you can't tell whether it's real or not.

The best example I can give is that when I have full-blown auditory hallucinations - for example, hearing bugs outside or in the walls that aren't there - it sounds like it's real and it's only when I ask other people about the noise that I realize I'm the only one hearing it.

When I have pseudo-hallucinations, on the other hand, I hear voices in my head that don't sound like they're coming from the outside, yet feel distinguishable from thoughts that I know are my own. Pseudo-hallucinations feel more like thoughts that were planted in my head as opposed to disembodied voices.



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30 Dec 2011, 6:02 pm

bumble wrote:
ghostar wrote:
bumble wrote:
ghostar wrote:
Oh yeah I have experience with meds! In graduate school, I started to really lose it (this was 2005) so the University Doctor put me on Klonopin for anxiety and Zoloft for axiety/depression.

Next was Paxil...then Effexor...then Citolopram plus ativan...then Zyprexa (an antipsychotic that caused me to gain 45 lbs in 6 weeks and it made me a zombie)...then Wellbutrin...and those are just for the anxiety.

For sleep during this same time period, I took Lunesta, Ambien, Trazadone, Amytripteline (sp?), Xanax, and Sonata. All were bad news for my day-time cognitive abilities...not to mention sleep walking, sleep eating, sleep drinking...hell I even woke up one morning to realize that I had shampooed all the carpets in my apartment the night before! (I didn't mind that one so much. :D )

Finally in late 2007, I went on Prozac (80mg/day) with ativan as-needed and that worked okay for a year and a half or so. Now I take nothing except for ativan when I am having a meltdown.

Overall I would have to say that the drugs kept me from killing myself because I was too doped up to even find a gun, much less pick it up, load it, and pull the trigger. That being said, I am doing much better now that I don't take them.

I exercise A LOT instead and that seems to work for me. And I don't eat wheat anymore...it makes me far more melt-down prone and tired. Another thing that has helped me is taking melatonin supplements at bedtime. My dreams are wild but I like them that way so I don't mind.


I tried a gluten free diet for a while and am considering going back on it. Although I mostly went on it to reduce abdominal bloating and problems that I was getting I did find that I became much calmer without it. It did seem to impact my mood. The reason that I came off the gluten free diet was because I had some blood tests done at the drs to find out if there was a cause for the fatigue, diarrhoea and stomach upsets I was having problems with. One of the blood tests was for celiac disease (as I have a close family member who is diagnosed with it) but they all came back ok so I figured I must be fine with wheat. I have relatives with just about everything I think lol (there is diabetes, cancer, celiac disease, rheumatoid (sp?) arthritis, IBS, Depression, Anxiety, Dyslexia and so on lol)

Since being back on wheat the IBS they diagnosed me with is 10 times worse, my stomach is constantly bloated, my acid reflux is back and I just am not as calm as I was off the stuff. For that reason I was planning on eating up all the wheat products I have in and going back on a gluten free whole food diet (I take most processed foods out as well due to possible cross contamination).

I know I tested negative with the blood tests for celiac disease but my body still does not seem to like wheat! I have always had a bloated gut even before I got the IBS and being off wheat was the only time I have known that bloating to go down. Now its bloated constantly again :(


I am not a Celiac and can tolerate other grains containing gluten (like rye for instance) but wheat specifically causes a host of problems including IBS, headaches, light-sensitivity, asthma, and eventually massive rashes of hives and eczema/psoriasis if I eat it frequently.

I love pizza but it just isn't effing worth it these days! 8O


When I went gluten free I started out just removing gluten from wheat but then found I was getting problems with corn as well so then I removed that. I also found that my stomach disliked too much dairy (altough I was ok with small amounts and bio yoghurt) so that was mostly taken out also. I basically ended up on a modified version of the paleo diet which was all meat, vegetables, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes or parsnips or butternut squash, rice (as that has never upset me) and with limited chocolate as a treat if I could find a gluten free bar. I lost weight on that too, but put it back on when I went back on wheat though (it doesn't half put weight on me..how I don't know because my food goes straight through me some days).

I am probably going to get back on my modified paleo diet just as soon as I've eaten up all the noodles I have in cupboard etc.

I had a load more energy on that diet than I have now! I also noticed that every time i ate wheat (even if by accident) I would be in a terribly bad mood for hours afterwards! People say it can't affect your moods but I am not so sure!


That sounds like a good idea...especially with your new antipsychotic med that causes you to be hungry all the time. With meat and vegetables, overeating is not as difficult for the body to deal with I think. Plus, it is pretty tough to majorly overeat vegetables and meat.

When I was on Zyprexa and gained 45 lbs in 6 weeks (that was a 40% increase in body weight for me in 1.5 months...staggering), baked goods were the worst to have around. Those atypical antipsychotics are pretty crazy drugs...at least for me.



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30 Dec 2011, 6:46 pm

I've been on a Depressive cycle for my whole adult life, first really began to symptoms together when I was about 18. I start in August, go "down" through a lot of different symptoms until Epiphany, then start coming "up" again. (Yes, I tried a light box. And St John's Wort. And quite a lot of other "non-drugs". They all seem to help. SOME) By the time I see the first daffodil, I know that if I'm not okay now, I'm _going to be_ okay soon. All summer, I'm non-depressive "normal", as normal as I ever get, anyway. (There's still the Asperger's: the depression is "on top" of it, and, I do believe, rooted in it.)

I didn't take any of the pills prescribed for depression before 1978: my husband was a Psychologist, and I knew too much about them!

In 78 I got divorced and both my parents died, and my depression that winter was as black as it possibly could be (I get "fog" only from Depression itself: have not gotten that from antidepressants. Another psychologist told me about the new pills, and how well they sometimes worked, and gave me a list of things my MD might prescribe for me. My MD picked Tofranil, and it probably saved me from suicide: I didn't what to do that! Had a little girl to raise and be responsible for! Tofranil gave me cardiac irregularity, and scared me off it. Even if you think you want to die, lying in bed at night and listening to your heart beat out jungle rhythms is not fun. However, I was on it long enough to cut off the worst of the lows, for that winter. The next winter was better, not such a heavy dose of grief pushing it down.

In the nineties I got another MD, and he and I tried together a number of things, all combined with a dosage of Pamelor. Paxil put me to sleep. Something else I can't for the life of me remember right now. Wound up with a combination of Zoloft and Pamelor, which ran pretty successfully for a couple of years, with Xanax just for panic attacks when I get one. Then my doc retired, and knowing that another doc with his records would just insist I stay on them, and I wanted to taper off and see what happened in the next autumn. Which I did, and things went pretty much as they had earlier in my life. Most years it doesn't get bad enough to kill me.

After September 11, 2001, things got pretty bad, and I didn't even _have_ a summer in 2001. A bit later I went to the low-income clinic, and the doc there wrote me a prescription for citalopram (Celexa) which didn't do much of anything.

Then I went to the Mental Health Center, and the Psychiatrist there was very obliging, wrote me the scripts for Pamelor, Zoloft, and Xanax, and didn't even mind if I tapered off them the next summer, which works about the best anything ever has. He tried me on Klonopam instead of the Xanax, but it wiped out my sense of balance-- I'd do things like fall over sideways, and somebody the age I'm getting to be can't afford too many falls: broken-hip time of life.

Tony Attwood said that when an Aspie is also a depressive, it's a general rule of thumb that we need only half the dosage of someone else -- but the way I run my dosage up and down, I can't figure that very well. Mainly, you have to find which one works for you, and your low-dosage attempt was a good idea.


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30 Dec 2011, 6:58 pm

This website helped me immensely with weaning off certain medications. You might want to give it a try.
http://www.benzoexodus.com/forum/index.php


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30 Dec 2011, 7:08 pm

I have bipolar disorder, and the first med they tried me on was Seroquel. It did nothing, even exceeding the maximum tested dosage. It works for me in combination with something else, but I'll get to that.

The second thing they put me on was Lamotrigine (Lamictal). It was a life saver as a mood stabilizer. Unfortunately, eventually when they switched my antidepressant, it caused the Lamotrigine to react with a very dangerous rash that the medication is black box warned for. I had to go off Lamotrigine or else it could have killed me.

The third thing they put me on, which for a long time was in combination with the Lamotrigine, was Risperdal. I've been on low doses and high doses, and low doses work best for me. At first, I was like a zombie on it, but I adjusted quickly, and now, I don't get any side effects from it except for a high prolactin level, which my doctor is lowering the dose of the med to try and correct.

My current combo is Seroquel and Risperdal, using the Seroquel as a mood stabilizer and the Risperdal as an antipsychotic. I can't sleep without the Seroquel. My doc thought I should have an antidepressant in the mix too, so she tried me on Zoloft (Sertraline), but it reacted badly with me. While I was taking Zoloft, I couldn't pee without great effort. It was horrible. And when I went off the Zoloft, I got those electric sensations you described, and felt horrible and out of it. I will never go on an SSRI again if I can help it.

I also briefly tried Trazadone to help me sleep, but it made me extremely aroused. It was weird. Every time I took it, I was super aroused, sexually. So I stopped taking it, because I didn't enjoy feeling like I was going to explode all the time, especially when I was trying to sleep.


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Dunnyveg
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30 Dec 2011, 7:24 pm

ghostar wrote:
Dunnyveg wrote:
ghostar wrote:
Dunnyveg, does the ginseng also seem to help with blood-sugar regulation that you have noticed?

If my blood sugar is too low or too high, I am not able to deal with much of anything. So far, B-vitamins are the best thing I have found to help stabilize my blood sugar...othe than avoidng processed foods that is.


Absolutely. I have a friend who has diabetes. He has gotten completely off his medications with it.

One thing it does for me, besides helping to stabilize my mood, is it helps me with my allergies. When they get really bad, they must do something to my blood sugar, as I get shaky. The ginseng makes me feel human again. It gives me natural-feeling energy.

I've got the impression you're Canadian. If so, "American" ginseng actually grows wild in southern Canada, as well as the upper US Midwest.


This is great info. I will buy some from my herbal supply store in town. We are lucky to have a really good supplier.

Also, I live in Idaho so close to Canada but still technically the U.S.. :D


Ghostar, Idaho is a beautiful place, though I haven't been there since I was a kid. I just got done doing some ranch work, which for me is a good chance to think--in this case about ginseng.

I originally got into ginseng when I was living in Houston and studying Zen when I was in my late twenties/early thirties. If I recall correctly, red (Korean) and white (American) ginseng are for different body types. I'm extremely sensitive to heat, and prone to anxiety. The Zen master told me always to use American ginseng, as it cools the body and relaxes (though it's not a tranquilizer in any way).

I know Texas is a strange place for somebody extremely sensitive to heat to live, but I don't live here for the climate. So, in case you're sensitive to cold and as misplaced as I am, I would look into the red ginseng--the heaven grade if you can afford it--and sliced so you don't kill yourself trying to saw or cut it into usable pieces.

Another thing: If you think the Korean ginseng is for you, be very careful about where you buy it. There is a lot of fraud going on--especially stay away from Ebay. What they will do is sell inferior roots as top-grade ginseng. I can't say the same thing couldn't happen with American ginseng, but I've never heard of any fraud as long as you buy from a reputable dealer.

I read the rules, and this site's proprietor doesn't allow us to link to businesses in the forums. So, if you'd like the name of the outfit I buy from, you are welcome to PM me.

Have a great evening.



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30 Dec 2011, 7:43 pm

"When I went gluten free I started out just removing gluten from wheat but then found I was getting problems with corn as well so then I removed that. I also found that my stomach disliked too much dairy (altough I was ok with small amounts and bio yoghurt) so that was mostly taken out also. I basically ended up on a modified version of the paleo diet which was all meat, vegetables, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes or parsnips or butternut squash, rice (as that has never upset me) and with limited chocolate as a treat if I could find a gluten free bar. I lost weight on that too, but put it back on when I went back on wheat though (it doesn't half put weight on me..how I don't know because my food goes straight through me some days). "

Bumble, I read an interesting book recently that might shed some light on high carb versus low carb diets. People of northern European extraction have been farmers for about ten thousand years now--at least the Germanic peoples. People from this lineage do better on high carbohydrate diets, as for ten thousand years their diets were largely carb-based, with relatively little meat, though most of them did consume dairy products. This group is prone to cholesterol problems.

There is one exception: Those of us of Celtic extraction. Celts were actually herding people until relatively recently. Like hunter-gatherers, their diets tend to be very high in protein and relatively low in carbs, especially the simpler carbs. This group is prone to diabetes.

Of course, this isn't hard and fast. I'm of Scottish, English, and German extraction; I think a lot of us have mixed lineage now. But I think most of us lean one way or the other. If I had the patience for such things, I'd try a vegetarian diet versus a low-carb meat-based diet and see which one did me the most good.



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30 Dec 2011, 7:51 pm

Dunnyveg wrote:
"When I went gluten free I started out just removing gluten from wheat but then found I was getting problems with corn as well so then I removed that. I also found that my stomach disliked too much dairy (altough I was ok with small amounts and bio yoghurt) so that was mostly taken out also. I basically ended up on a modified version of the paleo diet which was all meat, vegetables, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes or parsnips or butternut squash, rice (as that has never upset me) and with limited chocolate as a treat if I could find a gluten free bar. I lost weight on that too, but put it back on when I went back on wheat though (it doesn't half put weight on me..how I don't know because my food goes straight through me some days). "

Bumble, I read an interesting book recently that might shed some light on high carb versus low carb diets. People of northern European extraction have been farmers for about ten thousand years now--at least the Germanic peoples. People from this lineage do better on high carbohydrate diets, as for ten thousand years their diets were largely carb-based, with relatively little meat, though most of them did consume dairy products. This group is prone to cholesterol problems.

There is one exception: Those of us of Celtic extraction. Celts were actually herding people until relatively recently. Like hunter-gatherers, their diets tend to be very high in protein and relatively low in carbs, especially the simpler carbs. This group is prone to diabetes.

Of course, this isn't hard and fast. I'm of Scottish, English, and German extraction; I think a lot of us have mixed lineage now. But I think most of us lean one way or the other. If I had the patience for such things, I'd try a vegetarian diet versus a low-carb meat-based diet and see which one did me the most good.


Interesting! My mum was half Irish and half Welsh and had diabetes. What was the book called?

I did try a vegetarian diet once but I only managed to stay on it for a week or two. I was craving meat something chronic!



Dunnyveg
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30 Dec 2011, 8:18 pm

bumble wrote:
Dunnyveg wrote:
"When I went gluten free I started out just removing gluten from wheat but then found I was getting problems with corn as well so then I removed that. I also found that my stomach disliked too much dairy (altough I was ok with small amounts and bio yoghurt) so that was mostly taken out also. I basically ended up on a modified version of the paleo diet which was all meat, vegetables, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes or parsnips or butternut squash, rice (as that has never upset me) and with limited chocolate as a treat if I could find a gluten free bar. I lost weight on that too, but put it back on when I went back on wheat though (it doesn't half put weight on me..how I don't know because my food goes straight through me some days). "

Bumble, I read an interesting book recently that might shed some light on high carb versus low carb diets. People of northern European extraction have been farmers for about ten thousand years now--at least the Germanic peoples. People from this lineage do better on high carbohydrate diets, as for ten thousand years their diets were largely carb-based, with relatively little meat, though most of them did consume dairy products. This group is prone to cholesterol problems.

There is one exception: Those of us of Celtic extraction. Celts were actually herding people until relatively recently. Like hunter-gatherers, their diets tend to be very high in protein and relatively low in carbs, especially the simpler carbs. This group is prone to diabetes.

Of course, this isn't hard and fast. I'm of Scottish, English, and German extraction; I think a lot of us have mixed lineage now. But I think most of us lean one way or the other. If I had the patience for such things, I'd try a vegetarian diet versus a low-carb meat-based diet and see which one did me the most good.


Interesting! My mum was half Irish and half Welsh and had diabetes. What was the book called?

I did try a vegetarian diet once but I only managed to stay on it for a week or two. I was craving meat something chronic!


Here is the book:

http://www.amazon.com/000-Year-Explosio ... -1-catcorr

Only part of this book concerns diet. The thesis of the book is that rather than slowing down, evolution is proceeding at about a hundreds times the pace it ran at during pre-human times. In order for people to go from being low-carb hunter-gatherer or herding diets to high carb bread and cheese diets required a lot of genetic changes. Not everybody has these "new" genes.

It's actually the same with milk. Diary herding is about ten times more efficient than meat herding. Our distant ancestors developed a gene that allowed them to consume milk after childhood (something most people in the world can't do). In other words, the ability to consume dairy in adulthood is a great survival advantage.

It's a fascinating book, but it's not just about diet.



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30 Dec 2011, 8:26 pm

Dunnyveg wrote:
bumble wrote:
Dunnyveg wrote:
"When I went gluten free I started out just removing gluten from wheat but then found I was getting problems with corn as well so then I removed that. I also found that my stomach disliked too much dairy (altough I was ok with small amounts and bio yoghurt) so that was mostly taken out also. I basically ended up on a modified version of the paleo diet which was all meat, vegetables, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes or parsnips or butternut squash, rice (as that has never upset me) and with limited chocolate as a treat if I could find a gluten free bar. I lost weight on that too, but put it back on when I went back on wheat though (it doesn't half put weight on me..how I don't know because my food goes straight through me some days). "

Bumble, I read an interesting book recently that might shed some light on high carb versus low carb diets. People of northern European extraction have been farmers for about ten thousand years now--at least the Germanic peoples. People from this lineage do better on high carbohydrate diets, as for ten thousand years their diets were largely carb-based, with relatively little meat, though most of them did consume dairy products. This group is prone to cholesterol problems.

There is one exception: Those of us of Celtic extraction. Celts were actually herding people until relatively recently. Like hunter-gatherers, their diets tend to be very high in protein and relatively low in carbs, especially the simpler carbs. This group is prone to diabetes.

Of course, this isn't hard and fast. I'm of Scottish, English, and German extraction; I think a lot of us have mixed lineage now. But I think most of us lean one way or the other. If I had the patience for such things, I'd try a vegetarian diet versus a low-carb meat-based diet and see which one did me the most good.


Interesting! My mum was half Irish and half Welsh and had diabetes. What was the book called?

I did try a vegetarian diet once but I only managed to stay on it for a week or two. I was craving meat something chronic!


Here is the book:

http://www.amazon.com/000-Year-Explosio ... -1-catcorr

Only part of this book concerns diet. The thesis of the book is that rather than slowing down, evolution is proceeding at about a hundreds times the pace it ran at during pre-human times. In order for people to go from being low-carb hunter-gatherer or herding diets to high carb bread and cheese diets required a lot of genetic changes. Not everybody has these "new" genes.

It's actually the same with milk. Diary herding is about ten times more efficient than meat herding. Our distant ancestors developed a gene that allowed them to consume milk after childhood (something most people in the world can't do). In other words, the ability to consume dairy in adulthood is a great survival advantage.

It's a fascinating book, but it's not just about diet.


Thank you. The book will be of interest to me in many ways. One of my main prior interests was nutrition and the effect it has on us physically and mentally, hence why I was drawn to the Paleo diet at the time. My present interest is studying geology and evolution with a view to going on to study palaeontology. I will see if I can grab a copy from the library.