Curious: Do we have a right to avoid overloads?

Post Reply New Topic

I started to think about this but the concept of being forced to do something like get in front of a class is so foreign to me that I don't know how to even respond. How can somebody force you to do something when you can just say no? I mean they're not using physical coercion in the example given. I know I have a 'abnormal' sense of authority where my moral code trumps authority. Am I just defiant by nature?

Yes of course you can outgrow them, or more accurately you will learn to desensitise yourself and/or develop coping strategies. Your school and support network should be assisting you with this, BUT most of this you need to figure out for yourself. You are in the driving seat of your brain. The longer you leave it, the harder it will be. Make a start today.

For some inspiration and some practical advice have a read or listen of John Elder Robisons book "thinking different", he outlines many of the strategies he came up with for overcoming most of his issues and he figured out all of this without outside help or even a diagnosis until later in life.

Jason

I'm... not sure how to respond to that. I will say that I have sometimes toyed with my mental definition of "forced" with defiance in mind as surely you are not truly being forced to do something... when you're not physically forced to do it.

But in case you're not picking up on the meaning here, there are repercussions for saying no.

Of course you can always say no but most employment contracts oblige employees to comply with reasonable work requests.

Depending on what type of job it is, it may involve presentations etc. Hardly anyone I know enjoys them, and I have social anxiety as well as general anxiety and depression.

Has my workplace made adjustments? Yes. Does this mean I can always avoid doing things I'm uncomfortable with? No I can't.

There's a continuum between serious discomfort/disliking something and what you desribe as overload.

I disagree depending on how exactly you mean this. An overload as in one overload or a few of overloads causing damage in an otherwise healthy individual would be plain weird, yes.

Repeated prolonged episodes of overload can cause damage and will do so even in normal people who were healthy before. The collection of symptoms/disorder commonly called burn-out is a likely result of this pressure but worsening of already present (physical) disorders (especially by affecting the immune system) as well as impairments of mental functions are equally common.

But going into a busy shop or doing a presentation (which I love to do! stressful but fun) aren't really like that and one can always refuse to do these things (and accept the consequences) or request help from others who agree to lend a hand... so, uhm, I figured I might have been onto something else mentally than what everyone here on this topic is discussing, perhaps?

I was thinking more of:

Screaming into my ears, walking past me back and forth without a reason other than to brush me to shove me and touching me (like, running their hands down my arms, back and ew, my cheek) supposedly doesn't hurt anyone so these were - as far as the school was concerned - not attacks and the school didn't help me. Stuff like that is just not right and it's harmful.

Well, the entire point of the Americans with Disabilities Act (in the US, obviously) is to give people with disabilities recourse to receive accommodations for those disabilities. It's not a special right to avoid overloading situations, but a right to find ways to accommodate overloads so you can function more effectively.

Unfortunately, the ADA is written in such a way that you pretty much have to take businesses to court in order to get necessary accommodations, which is a flaw in the law itself.

As for whether or not overload causes no lasting harm, you can take that up with my fibromyalgia, or Apple_in_my_eye's heart problems. I think aghogday has also talked about developing fibromyalgia. Just to name a few. "Adult autistic burnout" is something several on this forum have described, and it does strike me as lasting harm.

That's aside from losing hours of functioning to each and every overload (happens with some of us at least), losing one's voice, losing other skills, temporarily or more rarely permanently. I find losing the ability to read to be rather harmful. Fortunately it's only been temporary when it happened.

The PDFs on this page describe how long-term overload and ensuing shutdowns can make autism more severe:

http://www.shutdownsandstressinautism.c ... paper.html

An example here. I've spent the past few years with most of my time either almost in or barely in overloads (my therapist thinks this at least, and it entirely makes sense). At this point my thyroid is failing faster, I have chronic tension headaches, and I might have developed a second type of migraine because of this.

The overload on its own, in a short situation like a presentation, can do a lot in terms of messing with my opportunities and people's views on myself.

However, the repetitive overload, this constantly being on the edge, has gotten to the point where I have headaches to the point of it hurting to move 15+ days a month. Reducing my stress level isn't enough, if you're dealing with enough tension in muscles, they'll actually act differently for a noticeable while after that point too.

As for the lasting mental damage, how long do you think it needs to last for? How about a meltdown from overload still making me meltdown most times I hear a particular person's voice or most people discussing said person almost a year later?

The aftermaths of meltdowns can be rather complicated.

Sigh. I really wish I didn't have to reply but I do.

Sensory overload can be harmful to the brain. Being over exposed to strobe light triggered epilepsy in me as well as severe anxiety. Having such severe anxiety about my sensory issues made me develop depersonalisation and derealisation (the environment not looking right - hallucinating, essentially). Severe stress in autistics can lead to regression which is brain damage. I've had about 3 so far.

Having shut downs over and over again can dramatically affect the brain. It even says that in a study on shutdowns in autistics.

Everyone has sensory sensitivities in different severities and those with mild or a moderate amount won't begin to understand how debilitating it can be to those with severe sensory issues. If you can walk 10 paces down your street without severe overload (slowed mental, physical functions) and without supports put in place then it's not severe.
My sensory overload is not just a bit irritating. It is painful. It can regress my cognition and motor skills considerably. Over exposure can lead to physical illness and meltdowns and shutdowns and even panic attacks.

Meltdowns now cause me to shake uncontrollably and lose motor function. I would think the exposure to many of these could further regress me.

I'm not sure how I feel about having a legal right to avoid overloads. That would be great but society would have to be altered considerably. I find it unfair that epileptics don't have a right to avoid a seizure. There are flashing lights everywhere, bright colours and loud noises. It's up to them to avoid a place while the rest of the world carries on.

Anxiety can cause heart attacks and sometimes people that feel anxious about presentations could have a panic attack, with or without sensory problems.

All I can say right now is thank you pensieve for that post.

Also, I think that definition of what severe sensory issues would be is a good one, other than the part where it might not be easy to figure that out if someone is overloaded even within their own home (as I am at the moment).

Overload is not just 'a little bit uncomfortable' to some of us, its more like "I have daily meltdowns and am constantly functionally at a much lower level than I used to, with sensory sensitivities I didn't used to have, oh and migraines and chronic tension headaches." for me.

Your name reminds me of "Turrtle Turrtle."

Maybe a better approach for some is to focus more on the strengths one does have....To me it is kind of ridiculous to expect people with a mental condition to simply recover from all their issues, I mean maybe some people can and I am happy for those people but its a ridiculous standard to hold everyone to.

I personally don't see why it would be nessisary to force someone who is severely uncomfortable presenting in front of people to do so, unless they would like to overcome their discomfort. But maybe there are more important things to them then presenting things in front of audiences.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 27 Feb 2012, 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, I appreciate Pensieve's post as well.

I should wear sunglasses and ear plugs when I go out, although I never remember to get the ear plugs. I know when I'm out noise can get bad enough that my entire brain stops functioning in a practical manner - as in I stop and do nothing until the noise stops and I can recover. I have lost speech while in a supermarket from overload.

And at home, the same two children and their mother who caused so many overloads for me last year and made things so much worse have been back for the past four months, with all the impact that has. So I get overloaded every day, and while I've found a way to cope so I have fewer shutdowns (I sleep all day, through most of the yelling) I still have entirely too many - three in one day the other day. It's frustrating to sleep an extra 6-9 hours and still need to sleep a full 6-8 hours because that other sleep was mostly recovery from overload and shutdown.

I think some people look at sensory sensitivities as primarily "it's so loud it hurts my ears/it's too bright" and so on, but I think it goes beyond that, creating mental gridlock and processing problems, at least for me. One thing about noise that makes it hard for me to process is that it seems to "bounce around" in my brain in some way, like it's being processed over a much longer period of time than it probably needs to be. Too many noises, and not always "too loud" creates what I mentioned above about my brain not functioning at all - that my brain is filled with sensory input and no real processing, and there's not much I can do until it clears up.

And yes to the headaches. Emotional as well as sensory overload can trigger migraines for me, and more often tension headaches. The more intense my emotions become, the worse my headaches can get.

When I did have jobs, long ago, I constantly took bathroom breaks to get away from the overload. I actually worked at McDOnald's and would lock myself in the bathroom with the lights off, and I recall one occasion I couldn't answer when someone knocked, and they got a manager to unlock the door. I also got reprimanded a few times for taking too many bathroom breaks, but for me the alternative was worse.

I'm picking up the meaning just fine. The original post asked if there is a legal right to say no. The fact that the question is one of legal right presumes that the disability has been disclosed to the organization and accommodations have been accepted as part of the agreement between the two parties. If there was no disclosure prior to the incident it's pointless to even have a thread about legal protection because the person has waived his or her legal rights by not disclosing. So by the example given in the OP, why would I agree to get up in front of the audience if my employer or school has been notified I have a disability and can't get up in front of the audience? If I have legally protected myself why should I give a crap about repercussions? I have a moral and legal right to tell them to piss off (in a nice way ) For your convenience I will paste the OP.

There's a difference between being asked to make copies on a noisy old copier and getting up in front of an audience when you have social anxiety. No you can't avoid everything. But the question really is- will you accept everything? I'll bet the answer to that is also no.

When I wrote that post, I wasn't even considering temporary skill loss (and its effect on social interaction and ourselves) or having to recover for a couple of hours to even a couple of days up to two weeks until I went to bed afterwards because such things happening is so common to me and I assume to others too.



That happens to me too whenever there are too many people at my martial training. I can't remember what I'm supposed to do, I can't talk and explain what's going on when asked, I can't figure out how much room there is to people (I can do that okay usually) and my movements, if I succeed to move without falling at all, are sloppy and it's suddenly become difficult to figure out how to keep straight. I'm still trying to figure out how to manage this because I don't want to drop out.

Anyway, yesterday night I thought that this is a major problem even if it's common. I wonder if that common exposure to this and other things because of autism means that my perception is screwed on that I don't spontaneously consider something that is severe as severe as it actually is just because it happens so often.

My ASD therapist recently asked me if I felt sad or suffered emotionally about that now that I'm talking as much to others people, it became obvious that my language isn't mostly unaffected but simply "not there" a fair amount of time. I thought the question was ridiculous because I'm so used to being me and how my speech does (well to none) every day - perhaps the question wasn't as ridiculous.

Actually, not disclosing doesn't waive your rights. You can disclose later and ask for accommodations even if you didn't initially disclose.