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Tuttle
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26 Feb 2012, 11:55 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I'm very creative and artistic, but I'm not "emotional," nor do I care about expressing "emotions" in my work. I have no idea what I'm feeling most of the time, at least not until several hours, if not days, after the fact. I enjoy reading fiction, analyzing and creating art, and science fiction.....but I am not emotional.


I am creative, and a big fiction reader. However, these are not the same as imaginative.

That's one misconception I've seen more often (not saying you have it, but it makes be bring it up)
creativity does not require imagination. You can be creative without strong imagination, imaginative without strong creativity, or have both or neither.



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27 Feb 2012, 12:35 am

My dreams tend to be logical and, hmm. They look realistic, but often involve fantastic elements. Admittedly, those elements are directly from my hobbies.

I also frequently have dreams about things like moving, or going out to eat, and the like.



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27 Feb 2012, 12:38 am

Ganondox wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Possibly, but I guess the question is whether it needs a different name or alexithymia serves to describe it.


I don't think so, as literally alexithymia would just refer to the emotional unawareness part, I think, and we already have the word autism.


I mean, alexithymia does a fine job describing what a lot of us experience. Why eliminate it or use something else? As pointed out, it's not specifically a diagnosis, but a description of a trait common with some diagnoses.



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27 Feb 2012, 12:48 am

I seem to have alexithymia.

I don't understand the emotions [and feelings] I feel, and I have no hope in describing them properly to others. As far as I'm aware, they're the two big parts of it.



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27 Feb 2012, 12:59 am

Alexithymia sounds like it's a step above Anhedonia which is usually caused by depression.

I had Alexithymia but it was more about not having a vast vocabulary for emotions than not feeling anything or having depression. I've had I suppose temporary Anhedonia when I have a shutdown or a seizure but I recover from it. So I do know what it (doesn't) feel like.

Thus I conclude my own Alexithymia was more to do with a lack of knowledge of emotions than not having them, which in a way was like my lack of knowledge about social rules. It was really confusing when I'd feel something and not put a name to it.

I have an imagination but it's limited to what I know. I need samples of imagery before I can form it in my imagination or draw it on a piece of paper. Also, my spatial skills are kind of incomplete. So I do have a highly visual imagination but there are limits.


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27 Feb 2012, 1:00 am

From what I have read it appears more as a disorder that goes along with other disorders.

B



Last edited by kg4fxg on 28 Feb 2012, 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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27 Feb 2012, 1:20 am

I think it hit home for me a bit more strongly when I had to explain how I'd know I was depressed, and it was all about the things I was doing and not describing anything I particularly felt. I have the emotions, but I don't experience them in ways that I think necessarily feels like emotions unless they get particularly intense. When that happens, it usually is heading toward a shutdown or meltdown.

I do feel emotions physically. This came up in another thread in which other people described anxiety as an almost purely mental thing for them, but for me it's very physical and the mental part is not always that strong. When I was having panic attacks, I didn't associate any emotions with them, just the physical elements.



Tuttle
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27 Feb 2012, 1:37 am

I feel emotions (and not just physically like Verdandi), but even when I have the vocabulary, I can't match how I'm feeling to words. I can't identify how I feel even to myself in many cases, though if I am asked specific questions I can pull information out slowly. The feelings I have don't map to words cleanly, no matter how much of the emotions vocabulary I learn. It's like the feelings are entirely there, I feel them, but the discussing them part of me has been dissociated, rather than the feeling part.

The physical parts of emotions also confuse me. I have a really hard time identifying whether the feeling in my stomach is being upset or nervous somehow, or is hunger, or is my headache being bad enough to cause nausea.



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27 Feb 2012, 1:47 am

Tuttle wrote:
The physical parts of emotions also confuse me. I have a really hard time identifying whether the feeling in my stomach is being upset or nervous somehow, or is hunger, or is my headache being bad enough to cause nausea.


I hate this so much. I often get confused between anxiety, nausea, hunger. These days I mostly test it by eating.



Tuttle
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27 Feb 2012, 2:05 am

Verdandi wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
The physical parts of emotions also confuse me. I have a really hard time identifying whether the feeling in my stomach is being upset or nervous somehow, or is hunger, or is my headache being bad enough to cause nausea.


I hate this so much. I often get confused between anxiety, nausea, hunger. These days I mostly test it by eating.


I try to test it with something to drink before food, because hunger will react somewhat to juice or tea with sugar. Peppermint tea is also a default 'cause it helps with all three.

With the constant headaches its so much harder to identify I find.



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27 Feb 2012, 10:00 am

Tuttle wrote:
I don't agree with your assessment that most autistic people don't have the third trait.

I completely agree that not all, but with limitations to imagination being in the diagnostic criteria for classic autism, I don't think you can claim that because of a few poster's on here that a majority of people don't have a trait.

Personally, I meet 1, 2, 3, and don't know what it means by 4.

Also, alexithymia isn't a diagnosis, its a trait that is common in people on the autistic spectrum, is not unique to the autistic spectrum and has a name.

To explain more about my own particular manner of both lucid dreaming and having very limited dreams and fantasies.
-I don't daydream at all. I'll think about things, but I don't daydream.
-I rarely fantasize about things I want to occur. In the few cases I do, its about things that are directly related to a special interest that are not current available to me (the only example I can think of is fantasizing about how I can get some animal to live with me when the situation made it seem impossible)
-My nighttime dreams are rarely things I can remember, and I usually feel like I didn't dream.
-When I do know I dreamed, they're very realistic dreams. I've had dreams realistic enough that over 6 months later I managed to not be aware that things that it was a dream.
-I do in fact lucid dream. In my lucid dreams, I still am that realistic. I will go lucid in a nightmare and will end up swimming in the dream. I don't go flying or fighting superheros, I find a nearby pool and swim (I'll give it that the pool didn't smell of chlorine though). Normal lucid dreams are similar.

On wikipedia there's the following description:
wiki wrote:
Typical deficiencies may include problems identifying, describing, and working with one's own feelings, often marked by a lack of understanding of the feelings of others; difficulty distinguishing between feelings and the bodily sensations of emotional arousal; confusion of physical sensations often associated with emotions; few dreams or fantasies due to restricted imagination; and concrete, realistic, logical thinking, often to the exclusion of emotional responses to problems. Those who have alexithymia also report very logical and realistic dreams, such as going to the store or eating a meal.


I personally fit all of those traits. If 4 is referring to 'concrete, realistic, logical thinking, often due to the exclusion of emotional responses to problems', I'd also say that from my experiences I don't think a majority of spectrumites don't have that trait.


I'm going to continue to disagree with you. If it isn't true that most people with autism don't fit criterion 3, then most people with autism would fit criterion 3. However, the majority of the general population does not fit criterion three, so that would suggest that if it's the majority among Autistics that meet criterion 3 then restricted imagination would be a key component to autism. I argue against this, first because it seems that everyone on the forum except for you is suggesting the opposite, secondly because most of the optional criteria for autism regarding imagination really just refer to a lack of normal pretend play and the like, and thirdly because I've seen claims that having an intense inner fantasy world is an autistic trait. Regarding the 4th croterion, well I might have completely misinterpreted it.

I'm aware alexthymia isn't considered to be a mental disorder, but isn't it still diagnosable?


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27 Feb 2012, 11:01 am

Ganondox wrote:
4. increased dependence on external stimulus.


Taking this literally then I'm surprised nobody has yet pointed out that stimming can be described with that.

Self-stimulation by creating certain stimuli to defend themselves against other stimuli or to stimulate themselves (including stimulating them in a way that relaxes them) can't be stopped or skipped easily by a lot of autistic people.


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27 Feb 2012, 11:32 am

Sora wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
4. increased dependence on external stimulus.


Taking this literally then I'm surprised nobody has yet pointed out that stimming can be described with that.

Self-stimulation by creating certain stimuli to defend themselves against other stimuli or to stimulate themselves (including stimulating them in a way that relaxes them) can't be stopped or skipped easily by a lot of autistic people.


Dammit, stop pointing out the holes in theories, you are supposed to just blindly except what I say. :wink:


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27 Feb 2012, 12:05 pm

Ok here is the actual definition:

Alexithymia is defined by:

1.difficulty identifying feelings and distinguishing between feelings and the bodily sensations of emotional arousal
2.difficulty describing feelings to other people
3.constricted imaginal processes, as evidenced by a scarcity of fantasies
4.a stimulus-bound, externally oriented cognitive style.

These definitions fit better with what I was trying to say than the ones I gave. I say stimming actually supports my argument, as the stimulation isn't really external, it's self generated, and the stimmer isn't always aware that they are stimming.


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