Wisconsin gets it WRONG!

Post Reply New Topic

I do think Aspies should be a big part of the effort, yes. But to correctly define the difference between NT and Aspie, you really have to know how NT minds work... and most Aspies don't really understand NTs. They baffle us. Well, they baffle me, anyway. So much they do seems so very illogical; so much seems based on assumption and generality instead of fact.

But we must seem equally confusing to NTs... Not "getting" what seems obvious, not seeing what everyone else seems to see...

A partnership between one open-minded Aspie and one open-minded NT would be the ideal research team, IMO.

Ideally, once we understand each other, it would start to become much more like being an anthropologist or a diplomat, understanding and interpreting another culture... Making way for each other, dissolving prejudice and learning to appreciate differences. That sort of attitude could really help an Aspie child in school... Imagine growing up without constant bullying!--heaven!!

WOW, Remnant and Fraya,

You put my life in a nutshell! And YEAH. They act like they all have datas emotion chip, and we don't, and they don't realize it is just CONTRIVED! The only value in it is for them because they all have it. Almost like a stock is driven mostly by the people that have or want it, and NOT because of any true value inherent in it.

Heck, I'm in Chicago now. Anyone know of a place I can go to meet some good aspies?

Steve

The attitude is different though. Most Aspies acknowledge that they do not understand NT's and that their society and actions seem illogical and make no sense. NT's on the other hand have experts who KNOW all about autism. I don't mean to sound cynical but I have been on a two online parent groups for a while and the vast majority who are NT are not interested in learning about anything except bio-med treatments and how to make the autistic person indistinguishable from their peers. Just today someone mentioned about how one group is looking to reach females their mid 20's because that is apparently the least evaluated group. A person who is in the ranks of one of the large autism groups thought it was a shame that they were trying to label people who were simply eccentric and considered it to be a lifestyle choice. It is utter nonsense of course because the real reason is that disputes their notion of the autism epidemic if they acknowledge that there are plenty of adults with AS. So if we are to have any kind of true advocacy than we need to have our own organizations and special education teachers and leaders in the autism community seperate from these NT run groups.

Yes, contrived is a good word for it. A lot of them do it on purpose. Some of them don't know any better. I suppose it's better than when the Germans were executing people for being too smart, but damn. What is the reason that they want us to believe one thing about living in a modern society while they practice another? Of course they don't want us to believe that there is a conspiracy of some kind going on. I don't know who we'd report it to, except that a lot of "NT" people have genuine emotions and conscience.

I do not know the study you are referring to. I'm a psych major at the University of Wisconsin and I can tell you that the department here is superb. There are a few bad apples but they are vastly outnumbered by many truly fantastic teachers.

I think I'm safe in that no other UW students will see this thread so I can vent a little bit. It is scary how little psych students here know about autism and AS. Most of the volunteer work for students here is in dealing with autistic kids in the area, and I get incredibly pissed when I hear other students brag, BRAG, about having done it. Autistic kids are passed around like candy just so people can put it on their resumes and it makes me sick. Just another example of how people, even psychologically-educated people, see autistics as broken machines and not as the human beings they are.

Whenever it comes up in discussions the only things people ever say about Asperger's is that "it's like autism only the people are smart instead of mentally ret*d." Nobody here really even knows what it is. Which is great for me because that makes me simply "weird" and not "subhuman" in their eyes. [I can say I don't care because I'm not friends with any of them but deep down I know I DO care].

I'm not trying to say I know everything about autism or AS because I don't. I'm just trying to say that most people aren't empathic and can't put themselves into the shoes of somebody who is different. Thanks for letting me vent...

[Errrr so you don't think I'm some loudmouth NT this is my background if you care. My frosh year I was having serious troubles and eventually I went into counseling for a short time. It was suggested that AS was causing my social problems though I had no clue what AS was. After reading more about it I found that I was pretty much a stereotypical case. I took an intro psych course my next semester and I was hooked on psychology...decided to add it as a second major. I refuse to be formally diagnosed because I refuse to be looked down upon.]

How dreadfully upsetting!

If this was a news article they are just trying to do their job; their job as a liberally biased idiot!

The people who called me a ret*d must have had a different definition of intelligence because they could barely handle common tools, let alone understand anything about the sciences.

Well, I couldn't call it a STUDY. They obviously STUDied NOTHING:

http://www.cesa7.k12.wi.us/SPED/autism/ ... per11.html

Ironically,

http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/ ... ergers.cfm

Seems more correct and complimentary, and even refers to some of Hans work!
Of course, Americans paid for the FIRST one. And the second one actually claims to be a DOCTOR.

I Hate to say it guys(Partially sarcastic statement), but Aspergers, for the most part, does NOT seem to be a disease or even a pathological syndrome!

As for sports, etc.... DON'T ASSUME that everyone can, or should, do the same thing. There are SO many more effective ways to exercise that don't require a level of dexterity, etc...

As for SENSORY deals? Maybe you should LISTEN to the AS guys! Perhaps THOUSANDS may have been better off if they listened to me. Did you EVER think that maybe the AS people are showing you what is to come? They "listen" to frogs, and holes in the Ozon layer, but NOT AS people? DUMB!

As for learning styles? PROGRAMMED INSTRUCTION!! !! ! Cheaper, Easier, PROVEN, works for EVERYONE! Whether a person is a moron, or a GENIUS, they can LEARN! Whether they learn by reading/hearing, they can LEARN! HEY, it USED to be used in the US! It at least WAS used by IBM, KNOWN for great classes at the time! Why aren't we using it? Are teachers afraid they may get replaced?

As for relationships? FORGET IT! Schools will NOT help, and they do NOT want to!

BESIDES, if I had known about this 30 years ago, I could have compensated! I would have had an EXCUSE! My relationships WOULD have been better! MAN, when I think how things could have been different.

So WHAT is the problem? If a person is a REAL disturbance, get the parents involved. The programmed instruction helps SIMPLIFY that solution! The student may come back BETTER and SMARER

MAN, if they did that with me, I could have been TWICE as smart, and I wouldn't have had the reluctance to move ahead, because classes would have had more age diversity. Being held back and missing opportunities is just STUPID!

BUT, what do I know? The "education" system claims I can't know ANYTHING because I didn't get a degree in education! What a DUMB position! By that line of thinking, NOBODY can know anything because a person can't teach unknown information, and the first teachers in education didn't have degrees in education! But the fact is they are too dumb and too biased to see that simple truth. How Einstien, Edison, Tesla, etc... ever were listened to is incredible! THEY didn't have degrees in education in THEIR specialties either.

BTW you NEVER know! If they followed some of this advice with an Autistic with a low IQ that was NOT responsive, there IS a chance that person may end up being like an ASPIE! You NEVER know!

Steve

I don't know that most of us aren't just people who have higher intelligence.

Hey SteveK,
Your using caps for emphasis kind of gets distracting... the message gets through fine without them

Can you tell me more about "programmed instruction"? I don't know what that is.

Remnant,

I appear that way, to a degree. You might have trouble seeing that I am autistic. If you look closely, you might see signs. Some are reminiscent of a United States gone by. Yet there are some interesting things. A few months ago, I was the only one, on a plane of about 120, that complained about flashing lights. Everyone else thought I was nuts. Last year, I seemed to be the only one holding my ears when the alarm went off. I could list a number of onlys that are symptoms of autism. I also don't put any faith in body language because it isn't true of me. I also have tended to be a bit naive and take people too literally. Of course, a lot of that is hidden because I have tweaked things. Today, I tend to be very cynical. As I wrote this, another commercial spoke of how 1 in 166 have autism. It is amazing that they don't seem to know what it is. My mother even said I never seemed to learn to talk. I just started speaking sentences, and she always marveled that she never had trouble understanding me.

I used to think I was just smart, shy, and my senses were “skewed”! So I can settle for a bunch of answers that create a lot of questions, or one that unifies everything!

Steve

Callista,

Sorry that I forgot your question. Here is the first page referenced from Google:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-progrins.html

This will break your heart. Here is what the second page says:

In the 1950s many of the ideas that had surfaced earlier were clarified and popularised. Programmed instruction was among the first, in historical significance for instructional developments and analytical processes, important to instructional design. This form of instruction is based on the behavioural learning theories.

The early programmed instruction was often delivered by some form of ‘teaching machine’ but later it brought the concept of interactive text. The programmed instruction movement extended the use of printed self - instruction to all school subject areas to adult and vocational education as well (Romiszowski,1997). Later as the technology developed other media, such as radio, television video and computer, came of use.


The 1950s, folks! A type of instruction that works on ALL(sorry) levels. Idiot or genius. NT or autistic! It is cheaper. And yet they threw it away!

BTW The statements are misleading. Ironically, programmed instruction had nothing to do with computers. It refered merely to progressive material, with tests and examples, with the key on the inside margin of the page. Each book came with a cardboard piece that would be dragged along the inside margin of the book, and could expose the answer. It was a simple idea, but it WORKED!(sorry) I still remember using it for reading. Instead of reading dumb books, I could simply go towards more advanced material. My father even gave me books IB gave him to learn COBOL!(akronym)

Steve

I always looked down at teachers, because most really aren't teachers.

I think we all feel we could be treated a lot more fairly, whatever our problems be. I know I never would've gone to counseling if that was the case. I'm relieved that the "study" you referred to was just an "informative" article for teachers and not part of actual research.

It was probably not written to be politically correct or nice because teachers are the ones who are supposed to read it and not people who ACTUALLY have autism or AS. When people aren't trying to be politically correct you can see just how warped their thinking really is (though I didn't think the article was all that bad). And that leads to all sorts of trouble which is why people "have" to be poltically correct in the first place. So now when we do see something that isn't politically correct we usually overreact to it because we're not prepared.

In the end you have to realize that nobody is truly fair or good. Some of us are just better at hiding our hatred and biases. Life's not really fair as it should be. You have every right to be cynical. Don't let that line of thinking run your life though. If you focus on the bad stuff and the past you'll never be able to enjoy the good stuff!

Jrock,

Why does it make you feel any better? The government paid for this and it is a part of the government documentation. It will be quoted, and given wieght with the citation. Frankly, I hate the ida people are getting rich by destroying my environment and the people around me. And they are even making me poorer, by charging me taxes so they can pay for this garbage!

Steve

Susan ashley in her book got some things very right, but speaks of this "tom" which is the idea that other people can also think, etc...

Well, I for one have been accused of having such a problem, but certainly don't. I can help it if some people are just WRONG!

One "teacher" of mine claimed to be in Mensa, and spoke of some really DUMB ideas including that VB is used for most video games(It ISN'T! It isn't compatible, fast enough, etc...), C2 is replacing C(There is NO C2, it was C++), etc.... She also had dumb ideas about Electronics, and EVEN psychology! Heck, she asked us to pick people from a list SHE made that we admire. I picked Arnold Schwartzenegger for one. SHE claimed that was because he was very healthy. HECK NO! I picked him because he had LOFTY goals, and achieved every one! Heck, even the author of "Demolition man" realizes that! In DM, they state that Arnold became President. A somewhat crazy idea at the time, but even HE is speaking about it now, and he has since engineered and achieved a plan to become Governer of California!

STILL, *I* recognize others may have a valid reason for picking Arnold. But that psuedo genius didn't. Yet they claim all AS people have it, and NTs don't!? Go figure!

Steve

That thing about the "United States gone by" touched me. It isn't much like the United States to me anymore. "They" are closing in.

The "theory of mind" that you mention in a later post, I think that animals have it. When I've seen how dogs touch each other and make sounds to communicate, they definitely know that there is someone there who can work out what they are saying. Saying that Aspies or anyone else lacks this may come from the experiences that some typicals have had. If they act like a fool, they will be treated like a fool. If a diagnosed person does the same thing, they see it differently. An Aspie might not know or care about the "social foolishness." He or she might have good reason. I was given good reason. Deliberate or not, it's difficult to impossible to avoid shutting down when someone is doing everything it takes to saturate your senses with stupidity. If the typical decides to act as if TOM doesn't exist when he is interacting with a "peculiar" person, he teaches that "peculiar" person to act as if TOM doesn't exist. This would work on anyone, though. It takes a bit of time for anyone to learn things that they aren't deliberately taught or that the teaching of is not inherent in their environment. Then they are always behind. They can only start to catch up when the others stop developing. The others might not want them to do that and might prevent it. Yes, they can do that in spite of some of the "facts" that we've all been handed about such things. The truth is, another person can prevent one from thinking, acting correctly, or having a life. Treating them as if they can't leaves a person vulnerable. The thing is to know that they can do this and learn to defend against it.

I know that other people have thoughts, feelings, and desires. When those thoughts, feelings, and desires are used as an excuse to say that I can't have a fairly normal life because they don't want to and don't believe that I should, then I don't care that they have the TOM stuff anymore. They treat me as if I don't, I treat them as if they don't, or I use them and I have every right to.