Does my employee have Asperger?

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She might have it. Most of the non-aspie traits you mentioned are stereotypical and don't apply to all people with AS (for instance I put effort into my appearance and having AS doesn't automatically mean you're good with computers). All people with AS do have some degree of social difficulties though- that doesn't mean not being social you can have social difficulties but still enjoy socializing, it's also possible that she managed to learn decent social skills over the course of her life so it's hard to say.

Do you mean stereotypical as in "they can actually be traits of Asperger"?

But even if she has AS I'm not sure her getting a diagnosis is going to solve anything. She's still going to be the same person after getting diagnosed, it's not going to change anything unless she uses the diagnosis to get therapy services and from what you've described of her she probably won't be willing to do that. I'm not quite sure why you think a diagnosis will help her financially? Getting a diagnosis is very expensive, so is getting therapy, and since she has a job she won't be eligible for disability benefits as far as I know. As for co-workers being more tolerant of her, why should having an official diagnosis change that? She is who she is; she shouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars and take the time to get a diagnosis for that.

We live in Europe - getting the diagnosis is cost free (but takes a lot of time), and the social security network if she is indeed diagnosed is quite good. (That means that it is quite difficult to get the diagnosis as well). She would get about 2/3 of her current salary if she had the diagnosis and had to stop working. Even better if she continued to work part time and be partially retired (because of her illness).
I think it would be much easier if her coworkers understood that she is the way she is because of the way her brain is wired - not because she is a bad and rude person.

Not that I think getting a diagnosis is a bad thing... I have found getting a diagnosis very helpful in understanding myself and coping with my challenges, but I recognized that I had difficulties and wanted to get help. If she doesn't want one and is functional without one I don't think it's going improve things. I think you're better off bringing up specific areas she needs to improve in and telling her directly that if she doesn't try to change her job may be at stake. If you still think she should get diagnosed I would bring it up in a gentle manner; rather than confronting her maybe you can lend her a copy of "Pretending to be Normal" by Liane Holliday Willey and say something like, "I think you'd find this interesting, maybe you can relate to some of it.

Exactly, I hope that would make her able to cope with her challenges, both privately and at work.
She is functional, but still, I know that her personal life is not easy either, and I believe she would have an easier life if she accepted that she might need some guidance, and that she has to change some of her behavior. But that her behavior is simply a result of the Asperger syndrome, so that she does not take it personal.

Will try to get a copy of that book, thanks

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[i]We live in Europe - getting the diagnosis is cost free (but takes a lot of time), and the social security network if she is indeed diagnosed is quite good. (That means that it is quite difficult to get the diagnosis as well). She would get about 2/3 of her current salary if she had the diagnosis and had to stop working. Even better if she continued to work part time and be partially retired (because of her illness).
I think it would be much easier if her coworkers understood that she is the way she is because of the way her brain is wired - not because she is a bad and rude person.

Exactly, I hope that would make her able to cope with her challenges, both privately and at work.
She is functional, but still, I know that her personal life is not easy either, and I believe she would have an easier life if she accepted that she might need some guidance, and that she has to change some of her behavior. But that her behavior is simply a result of the Asperger syndrome, so that she does not take it personal.

If you change the font and the majority prefers the new font, I think I would probably just say to her "I think we're going to have to go with the majority."



You can always ask...For example, in the instance above, you could say "Is the other font easier for you to read?" Or "Did you have a specific theme in mind?" and give her a chance to explain her needs or vision.



I think it's important to give credit where credit is due in a work place. If she comes in with a suggestion that someone else had previously suggested, and claims it as her own, I would just say "Oh yeah (whoever) suggested that a few months ago but you had some reservations about it."

I think you have to keep in mind that you are her boss, not her friend, and while you can be a friendly boss, you need to keep in mind that you have responsibilities to all of your employees. Your goal is, how do you utilize your employees to maximize efficiency and job place harmony? I'm not proposing you fire this lady. You stated she has strong points and you should allow her to utilize those, but you also need to keep each employee within their boundaries as far as tending to their own responsibilities. If she makes a decision she's not authorized to make, and it turns out badly, you as her supervisor have to answer to your boss for that, so it's not unreasonable or mean for you to re-iterate everyone's responsibilities from time to time or even tell an employee "I'll handle that".

I think I would also emphasis the concept of working as a team, but with you as the captain. I say captain because I think many people misinterpret leader as an authoritarian figure, and while you are their supervisor and the "buck stops" with you, it's usually better to lead while standing along side others rather than in front of them. What I mean by that is, you are there to help them be the best workers they can be, not punish them at every misstep.

Some people do indeed have problems with criticism. Most do, to some extent. However others have problems properly critiquing because they let issues brew so long that when they finally approach the person directly, they they're upset, and their "critique" becomes an attack.
Here, probably both explanations apply. Subtle critique is never understood. Direct critique / suggestions for improvement often makes her react strongly. So none of the other employees ever say anything to her. And I try to not do it too often, but I probably have a tendency to coem with more things at once when I finally have one of our conversations about these things. I have also had a tendency to do this orally - thinking that would seem milder. But if she actually has Asperger, I have learnt lately that it might be better to give her a written notice (this seems more serious in my eyes)

I would not "drop hints" if you have a valid issue with something she does. I would be direct, however I would be careful not to phrase my critique as an attack. You should also be open to understanding the reasons she might be operating in such a way. It might actually be an issue she is working with in the most optimal way it can be worked with.
I definitely should. I am aware that I also have lots of improvement potentioal as a supervisor. But I am quite flexible, and normally let her try things out her way. However, I see that the way she wants things to work, confuses both the customers and the other employees. Thus it often seems illogical and counter-intuitive for most people.
I must admit that this is one of the reasons I wonder if she actually has Asperger - I have always had the impression that they are highly logical and rational. It seems like she also has a logic that she feels strongly for - the only problem is that her logic is incomprehensible for other people.

Traits that I am uncertain about (don't know if they have anything to do with Asperger):
Deals very poorly with criticism
Strange / faulty logic – she seems to feel very passionately about has a strong sense of logic, but this seems counter-intuitive to most other people. Also to people that are commonly recognized to be highly analytical and logical
Superior complexity – she has to give the impression of being extremely knowledgeable about everything, also things she simply does not know much about. Ex: she might tutor a quantum physicist about the Quantum Theory (based on info she has picked up from Science Illustrated), or disagree with a cardiologist in a general conversation about heart decease, on the basis of what she has read on forums, women’s magazines etc.
Is never wrong (in her own eyes).

Traits that might mean she does not have Asperger (goes against most descriptions):
Social –loves interacting with lots of different people, takes the initiative to social gatherings, can talk on the phone for hours etc.
Loves working with sales
Sense of humor and irony – she both understands and uses humor and irony in direct conversations (but has a problem with it when written).
Passionate – with her work, her social activities, her friends, her love life
Puts an effort into her appearance and has a good sense of fashion
Lies to keep up her appearance as flawless or knowledgeable
Not logical and analytical
Does not seem to need / follow routines
Has lots of trouble with computers
Good motor skills

She might have aspects of narcissistic personality disorder. [see original post] has useful information. [see original post] if you search for narcissistic personality disorder, has information.

There is an often repeated saying: "If you met one Aspie, you've met one Aspie." Even two Aspies from the same family will likely have different issues.

I will bear that in mind when taking up this issue, thanks

If she has a close relative who is diagnosed, then she probably already knows, or will soon realize, if she has it too.
Her family member was diagnosed many years ago, so I doubt it. She, however, was almost an adult when the diagnosis came into being.

An Aspie diagnosis is seldom of any help to a grown-up unless they need SSI -- all the programs are for children (and many of those are of debatable value). That is one of the reasons there are so many of use who are not bothering to seek official diagnosis.
In Europe it can be of substantial help, giving her financial aid if it makes her worklife more difficult, for instance (as it probably does, I know she has had many, many different jobs)

One thing you can do for her: Keep in mind that we often don't "get" subtle. If you need her to understand something, say it straight. If any of her traits are causing genuine trouble, implement progressive discipline while helping her find ways to learn better social skills.
This is probably where I have been doing wrong most of the time. I hate to sound "commanding", and I am so afraid that she will be offended. But I will try out a more straight line.
Any ideas about how to implement progressive discipline in a courteous way, and towards an adult? I am not really a mild person, but I hate to feel bossy

It's hard to say. Not enough information.

Though when you mention that she has a family member with Aspergers I am reminded of something in Tony Attwood's book. Basically to the effect that neurotypical people can pick up some AS traits from living with a family member that has AS. It is not unusual for someone with an AS sibling to develop some of the traits themselves even if they are not AS. This is one reason why it is hard to tell.
She is considerably older than her family member, so her personality would have been "formed" when that family member came into being. But of course, there might be other family members with Asperger that she picked up some trats from. But the main thing is that she doesn't get cues from other people when she is threspassing her limits.


Though one misconception many people make is that the word 'syndrome' implies a disease, this is probably because the most well known syndrome is Down syndrome. What the word syndrome actually means is that a person meets a certain list of traits. If she has enough of these traits to qualify as Aspergers then she has it, if she doesn't meet enough of the traits then she doesn't. That's why two different people who are both AS can still be very different, because you don't need to meet all of the traits on the list to qualify as having Aspergers.

I totally agree. It is NOT a decease, it is a condition that can bring along many positive things, and that probably has stood for much of the progression in this world. I don't see it as negative, but simply that one has to be aware of how this might influence on the interaction with other people. Something she appears to be certain that she masters very well (when in fact she doesn't).
The reason Asperger can show in many different ways is also the reason I started this thread. Her family member probably has more of the typical traits (I have never inquired much into this, as she often seems reluctant to disclose things she finds negative about her life. That's why I don't know much about her childhood or earlier work life.

I'd just recommend addressing the traits that need addressing, I don't know how helpful a diagnosis would really be.
I think it might be difficult for her to accept that she has problems without accepting a good reason for that at the same time. If somebody had told me that I was bad at picking up on social cues, that I often behaved in an inappropriate way, and that I had a strong superior complexity, I would be very hurt. And probably deny it even more. If, on the other hand, I learned that my brain was wired differently, and that this would give me some advantages, but also some disadvantages, I think I would deal with it in a better way.
I have not been able to reach through to her regarding her unwanted behavior. But perhaps a diagnosis would make things clearer for her, so that she was not so defensive regarding this?

It is possible this could have to do with AS, people with ASDs can sometimes come across as controlling because of the need to control their environment and aversion to change in order to minimize stress and keep things predictable. You mentioned her not having routines/ritualistic behavior but the control issues can be a manifestation of that symptom. That's a pretty big "if" though, there really isn't enough info to say. Some people are just control freaks.

Have you told her in a direct and concrete way that her behaviour is unacceptable? It wouldn't matter if she is aspie or not, you really need to have this conversation with her and explain what you expect of her. If she cannot take on-board this criticism and improve then there is not much you can do with her.

Jason.

I'm self-diagnosed that I have Asperger's, I've worked sales, and I've done well.

I tend to have an A game and a C game and not too much of a B game.

I agree with the above that trying to convince someone they have Asperger's may not be the highest probability approach.

Maybe you could sell her on the analogy that a veteran, seasoned baseball pitcher learns to win when he doesn't have his best stuff. That is, he learns to win with his B game.

As far as her correcting people . .

I have a great ability to remember movies. I can see a movie five years ago and if it's a movie I take ownership of, I can discuss it with someone who saw it last night. I used to think it was a "photographic" memory for dialogue, but it's actually better than that. I sometimes get the dialogue slightly wrong, but I get the gist of it.

I'm also great at picking up tidbits of information. For example, I followed the whole H1N1 swine flu closely in 2009 and I picked up this.

New York Times, Denise Grady, Sept. 3, 2009.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/healt ... .html?_r=1
“ . . . In children without chronic health problems, it is a warning sign if they seem to recover from the flu but then relapse with a high fever, Dr. Frieden said. The relapse may be bacterial pneumonia, . . . ”

This might be the single biggest, non-obvious piece of advice that I ran across. This addresses when to take your child to the emergency room and when not to. Or have doctor you're on good terms with call in a prescription, but it is serious. The other bit of advice, in zen simplicity, is if you start having trouble breathing, get thee to a doctor promptly. But that's entirely obvious. This thing about relapse with high fever is not (and presumably also true for adults).

So yeah, knowing this cold, I could see myself arguing with a doctor.

Now, as far as coaching me, these are some things that might help:
This is not necessarily the only important fact.
Context also matters, the broader context of what else is happening with the patient and also the broader social context
and there are skills of underselling ('all I'm saying is that Thomas Frieden before he got promoted to the CDC . . ' saying with a little sense of humor, sometimes I can only partially pull this off and that's fine, too)

And like coaching a high jumper, you might need to matter-of-factly remind the person the same thing several times, right?