NT language

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While I agree that NT's do expect some mind reading, not always is manipulation involved. Or if that's really what you want to call it, fine but like mentioned it is a societal norm. Among NT's that is. And for the most part I don't think NT's feel manipulated in these situations. Sure we know if someone is asking if we would like to help them, we know they really would like our help and are asking in hopes that we'll say "sure, I'd like to help you". The thing is since we know what's going we decide how to respond. If the person comes back upset we can always say well you should have just said you needed my help! I know it sounds like too much work for something so simple. Shoot, typing this out makes me realize how bizarre it is.

Sometimes NT's feel the same way:"why don't you just say what you need?"

Now there are some master manipulators-my mother in law for one. But what she does is not the societal norm and a lot of people know what she's doing. It's sickening to listen to her "ask for help".

Reason why I call it manipulation is because that is how I feel when people do it. They ask you a question and you answer it and they get upset about it saying you are rude or mean or gave them a sly comment. Also they may say something to you and expect you to do the opposite and when you don't do it, they get mad at you about it and say you don't care. To me it's all head games they play. It's tricking you right? That is what manipulation is all about. But yet they didn't get what they wanted.

As an NT how can you tell if someone wants an honest answer when they ask something like "does this dress make me look big?" I am sure NTs also share the same frustrations as we do when they ask such a thing because they also want honest answers and don't ever get them.

I get what you're saying. That's why I said call it that if you want. I honestly see your point. Unfortunately NT's know what's going on. We are used to this kind of stuff! I don't know how someone with AS would instinctively know what the heck is going on. They wouldn't!

Manipulation? Maybe, I suppose this is a form of manipulation that is acceptable. Since we know what's going on we can control it.

As far as the dress issue, its tricky. For me, I consider who's asking. If its someone I know won't be upset, I'll be blunt. If I know they'll flip out, I'll be vague. Maybe suggest another dress or point out another flaw so maybe they'll decide against it. Maybe say its not flattering. I won't lie though. Just like I never say an ugly baby is cute! I'll say it's "sweet" or I'll say "look at all that hair". I said my own son was ugly when he was born so no one is off limits.

I have small circle of friends so we are close. They'll tell my butt looks big in a minute!!

I have had troubles like this before, the NT's at work have been upset with something ive done, but have complained to the manager who talks to me and until she had talked to me i had no idea anybody was upset with me... now i find by asking too many questions im safe!

Of course there's manipulative people, but it's not that simple. There could be more elements.

(1). Non verbal language. Even if the verbal sentence was 'do you want to come?' there could have been a verbal message that she didn't get. For example, if the person who says that is giving you a 'please' look the whole message (verbal+non verbal) is 'please, come'.

And here it's up to you to say clearly that you have difficulties with non-verbal language. There's nothing bad on it as long as you tell it in a assertive way. I forget faces constantly, but I'm very honest with it and I'm not ashamed of saying it clearly.

(2). Politeness. Perhaps the sentence was slightly different. 'Do you want to come?' is not the same than 'Could you come?'. The second one means 'I'm asking you and you have free will, but please, come'.

How do you ask for a coffee in a cafe? You don't say 'Hey, give me a coffe' but 'Plese, could you give me a coffee?'. However, you are not really asking a question. This is just the same.

(3). Self-esteem and Love/Friendship. Some people need to know that you care about them and you volonteer, even without a clear demand. In my country there's a proverb 'Good friends are like blood: they come when you're hurt even if you don't call them'. They are not only asking you to help them, they're asking you to care about them.

(4). Lack of maturity. If you're an aspie you can think that this is always your fault. But some NT really expect you to read their mind. This is not a NT trait, but a lack of maturity trait. The only way to guess apart between this and the other ones is to talk clearly about it.

You're supposed to do your best about non-verbal and social rules (and to explain assertively your difficulties and how you're doing your best), the same about love/friendship requests (as long as they're not exagerated and senseless), but with regard to immature people, it's up to them to grow up.

Good post, Greb. I wasn't thinking about that non-verbal communication. It's so hard to read sometimes, though.

It's unfortunately true that people have a lack of maturity, especially when it comes to communication. People are taught how to communicate by observing and interacting with those around them as they grow up, even if the people raising them and interacting with them may not be the best examples.

Hey! My parents are like that too! I'm bored and get told "Well you should have went with us yesterday to X." I get told the same thing!! !! ! and sometimes since I have a bad eye my eyes look wonky and they think "Oh she has been on her videogame all day!" When really I've just been on my laptop or Ipad alot. and sometimes it's "Go play a videogame if you're bored." Other times it's OMG! you played a videogame or "Oh she's too busy playing her game! Sometimes it's ok others it's not! So confusing!! !! !

If you are on the phone, or not looking at the person you wont get that 'please' look.



It's not always that simple. It depends on the person. You could have a person who never uses the 'could you' and always uses the 'do you'. Call it politeness or what have you but unfortunately you can't always apply the 'if this then that' logic to stuff like this. There are so many variables and when in the moment who can explore all the possible variables?



I do not agree this is a lack of maturity. As mentioned before it's an NT societal issue. Maybe it's not completely logical but it's not immature either.

Yeap, of course. But nobody (sane) expects from you to understand non-verbal language you can't actually see. When we talk about non-verbal (gestural) language, we're talking about face to face communication.



In Spain polite formulas are not used, neither in casual nor in formal conversations. Voice tones are used instead. Foreign (NT) people find it shocking and very difficult to handle, often missunderstanding messages. You can't expect Asperger people to handle social situations that even NT can't handle easily.



I reaffirm myself: expecting somebody to read your mind is a sign of NT lack of maturity. The same as expecting that everybody expresses himself in a logical and precise way is a sign of ASD lack of maturity.

But let's be precise about what I'm saying: expecting somebody to read your mind. If you care about somebody and you demand this person to show his love/affection/care back, this is not reading a mind. This is showing love, something that you can rightfully expect from a (true) close friend or a lover by his/her own initiative (if you must tell somebody 'tell me you love me' to hear it this is not really working really well). The same with knowing one person's habits after some time in a relationship (if you're supposed to love somebody but you don't pay attention to this person this is not working very well neither).

My boyfriend would flip if I ever did that. Because he dosnt understand the implying but if he even caught , he'd get upset as he finds it sneaky, he'll say things like "If you want me to, come out just say it don't beat around the bush and waste my time" Now. as he gets more what people are basically implying. Like a lot of his friends will do things like "Oh I have to take the bus, wish I had a ride" And he never understood their implications before but now he gets it and will call them on it.

I had a friend who did that, WOW that was annoying, just say it , but its because they don't want to burden you , so they want you to offer. Like "Oh I'm soo hungryy, but I have no money for food." -.-... I use to offer, now I won't unless asked, I'll Always make comments like "I'm hungry too" or "Ah I already ate at home." or Do you want me to drop you off at home then?lol

It's true it happens a lot, usually when someone says do you want to come, and you don't answer the way they expect they either say it their or wait till after to point out how you didn't do it..

But tbh, that's not something people with asd do usually because of their ability to just state their minds. But not all NTs do this, this is an issue, for anyone who does it

A lot of parents do it.

My parents always do it. If for example he said "Do you want to come out with your sisters, and help me?" And you said "No I'm playing video games" That would be a very common thing people do, which is their way of trying give you free will while ASKING that of you. it's also wrong, but they are stating that they want you to come to help them with your sisters, out of respect for your parent you should always say yes, unless you had prior commitments(unless like if u had a raid Or an appointment or plans with a friend) at that point Should they just say as a parent, your coming with me , I need your help?

I'm just saying that since you aren't always in a position to see a person you can't apply what you suggested. And I am quite sane. It's not always an easy formula.



I don't live in Spain, I live in the U.S so I can only go by what I know to be true here. I handle social ineteractions quite nicely here in the U.S. I'm sure if I went to another country things would be different but like I said I live here so that's all I can speak about.

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Lets just agree to disagree on this. I don't think it's a lack a maturity on the part of the NT or AS person. People with AS need directness and NT people-not so much. Nothing wrong with either one. When I'm interacting with my AS guy I'm direct and explain things in depth. When I'm with a NT person I don't have to explain as much. I don't care. I do whatever it takes for whomever I'm dealing with the understand me.

I think it's less a case of people expecting you to read their mind as much as it is them expecting you to answer the question in context.
Try no to consider the question in isolation. i.e.-Do you want X. No, I don't want X.
Rather, when asked this type of question: a.) consider the question, b.)think of past instances and how they turned out, c.)weigh your good will and/or obligation towards the person asking against your own desires, d.)answer appropriately.

It's not uncommon for the answer to be "no, I want to play a video game." However, if you have gone through the above process, you will be aware that a negative reaction is possible. This way you don't need the non-verbal language to give you the hint. The OP indicates that he knew his father would need help. Yet he chose not to. Maybe part "c" was skipped.

Dad should have asked directly, but often that's uncomfortable and instinctively avoided by NTs. He only said something afterwards because he was frustrated. If things had gone smoothly, he probably wouldn't have said anything.

I don't know if anyone has noticed but to me it seems like it's all or nothing with NTs. When they try and be direct with us and spell things out for us, they do it excessively acting like we are too dumb because they dummy things down they say too much and it's as if we be too stupid to not know it or be too stupid to figure it out on out own. But when they don't do it, they then expect us to be mind readers. But when they do try and help us, it goes to extreme it feels like they are being condescending towards us. That is the impression I have gotten just by what I have read here by aspies.

I just feel Poor NTs, they are trying their best and they are still pissing the aspies off when they try and it's a no win situation for them. We should try and help them and not take offense to what they do because they are trying. We just need to help them spell out the gray for them so they know for next time. Like they may learn "Oh I don't have to tell him where to put the trash when I tell him to take it out. He knows to just put it in the trash can outside, not just leave it lying out on the ground." So next time they tell that aspie to take out the trash, they tell them to take it out without telling them to put it in the trash can.

When people get too specific with me, I feel like rolling my eyes because I am thinking "yeah I know, I am not that dense." But I let it go and not bother me, I see it as them trying their best to be direct. You can also tell them you know that already so they know.

I can only speak for myself. If you know me here on the forum you know that I'm in love with a guy who has AS. Yes, when I talk to him I am more specific but not to the point of treating him as if he was a child. I have 2 children one who is 6 one 13, I have had to explain things and I do so according to their age. So I know how to explain things to children. However it is different when I speak to my guy with AS. I will throw something out there and when I see the confused look on his face I might say it in a different way or explain it a little better. Since I know he has AS (I'm the only one that does) he feels comfortable telling me he doesn't know what I'm trying to say. I know he's an adult and he's very intelligent. They guy is reading a book on quantum physics for goodness sake!

The NT stuff that drives Aspies crazy drives the NT's crazy as well. We get pissed with each other for not being specific on certain things. Lots of misunderstandings occur because of this. We get pissed with each other for being overly specific to the point that we are condescending. I know someone who explains things in so many different ways, even after I stated that I understood. But for me I just think "he's just trying to get his point across, yeah it’s irritating but I get over it.

Like I said, I can only speak for myself, but yes I (we) are trying. I agree on the not taking offense part but it goes both ways. My guy does stuff to me that baffles me and could hurt my feelings had I not known he had AS. He's never "gone off" on me like I've read in some of the threads but a couple of times I had to think about what just happened and put things into perspective. Conversely as much as I try I am sure I have probably done something that irked him. But he knows I would do anything for him and as he's gotten to know me he knows that everything I've done is out of love. And he knows this because I've told him. Not because I expected him to read my mind! Telling him how I feel about him is one thing that I am very specific about and something I do constantly not because I am treating him as a child but because I love him and that's the way I am.

We have to realize the intention behind what is being said/done. If something comes off wrong to me, I just think about the person. You've heard that term "Consider the source"? Well that's what I do. If it's something that seems rude then I just consider whom it is coming from and ask myself if that person would ever do/say something to hurt me. Then I react accordingly. Sometimes the person is a real jerk and I so I would expect stuff like that from them!

My guy told me that he doesn't tell people he has AS because he gets treated differently when people find out. He explained it was a distancing of sorts and maybe also the over explaining and the condescending way people talked to him. He and I get along well. He tries hard to understand my NT ways and I try hard to understand his AS ways. He has no idea I'm on here (that I know of) I initially came here for help but now I feel that sometimes I'm helping others.

I appreciate that you understand that we are trying. At least I know I'm trying.



Thank you. That is nice of you.

One thing I'm wondering is that if you KNEW he needed your help, why didn't you help him?