I've cracked the body language code, folks!
Not that their own hostility will show, no. Even if they themselves feel no hostility toward the aspie, their good rapport with their fellow NT is more important to them despite the hostile NT's treatment of the aspie.
It's like the group thought is, "Gee, we don't actually have anything against the aspie, and we can clearly see that the hostile NT does. Although we may not agree with the hostile NT's actions toward the aspie and we can clearly see it's unjust, we otherwise get along quite well with that hostile NT. So why express our opinion that the hostile NT is being hostile in the first place? Even if we don't agree with it, the aspie isn't worth wrecking the good rapport we all have with the hostile NT."
For clarification, the hostile NT is only hostile with the aspie because he's an aspie. He gets along just fine with all the other NTs and they get along with him. Although the other NTs themselves don't feel any hostility toward the aspie and can see the injustice, their is no "social currency" to be made from sticking up for the aspie in calling out the hostile NT.
And yet there are other, far better ways of dealing with the hostile NT that won't actually wreck the rapport but those far better ways usually aren't even considered, take note.
And again, even if we do consider the "social currency" situation, it really says more about those who will stick up for those who put down good to keep up the appearances, than those who will show the integrity to do the right thing.
I think you and I actually agree on this, in a way we just see it via slightly different perspectives. That's how I view it, anyway.
And yet there are other, far better ways of dealing with the hostile NT that won't actually wreck the rapport but those far better ways usually aren't even considered, take note.
And again, even if we do consider the "social currency" situation, it really says more about those who will stick up for those who put down good to keep up the appearances, than those who will show the integrity to do the right thing.
I think you and I actually agree on this, in a way we just see it via slightly different perspectives. That's how I view it, anyway.
Yes, ultimately I think we both agree.
I just think the sentiment isn't so much that NTs see themselves in their fellow hostile NT and therefore excuse his behavior. Rather, I simply think it boils down to the idea that the other NTs think, "Even if what the hostile NT is doing is wrong, we like him better because he plays well with the rest of us. Though we ourselves don't mind the aspie, and we ourselves might never act like the hostile NT, because he actually is an NT, we'll excuse his behavior. Even though we don't hate the aspie, we get along better with the hostile NT, so his appalling behavior is forgiven."
In other words, it's not so much that they agree with the hostile behavior because they also do it (they might not actually be that way). It's because if given a choice as to who they liked more, they'd pick the hostile NT because of his better social skills. So even if they didn't mind the aspie, they're more willing to overlook injustice and transfer blame based simply upon which of the two they like more. And NTs almost ALWAYS like the other NT more, regardless of how they feel about the aspie or the injustice.
But yes, I think we both agree on the unity between them: Either they forgive the hostility because they themselves would do it, or they forgive the hostility because they simply like the hostile one more than the aspie.
and either way, it doesn't make the outcome of the scenario any more acceptable. Like I said...it just shows them for who they are; they may not be as bad as the hostile one, but willingly propping up the hostile one to preserve the unity and image doesn't exactly make them look particularly appealing either.
Ok, the opening post on this thread could have been delivered in about a quarter of the amount of words.
You know those really annoying adverts that appear to offer advice on anything from dating tips, to home improvement, or whatever. They ramble on and on about
- "how these tips are really going to help, just read on..."
and then you skip forward a few pages, and still they are rambling on about
- "becasuse, folks, I'm going to tell you how..."
and then a few more thousand words later
- "just sign up for a free trial, and I will reveal..."
Errm, within 10 seconds I kinda put the opening post in this thread, to one of those.
Immediate switch-off. As you said yourself, we're busy people, we've got important things to get on with.
Sorry if this sounds overly critical; but apart from that, I do tend to agree with the points made, although they're not exactly the revelation of the century.
You're absolutely correct.
As I said, I'm not even sure if I am an aspie, but if that behavior is considered neurotypical, then why would I aspire to be that way? What I don't get is why they do act that way.
I find many of my problems don't come from misunderstanding "social rules," but rather finding them appalling.
Based on what I've said here, do you think it's plausible I have Asperger's?
You're absolutely correct.
As I said, I'm not even sure if I am an aspie, but if that behavior is considered neurotypical, then why would I aspire to be that way? What I don't get is why they do act that way.
I find many of my problems don't come from misunderstanding "social rules," but rather finding them appalling.
Based on what I've said here, do you think it's plausible I have Asperger's?
Do you mean why do they act hostile, or why do they prop up those that do over us?
You're absolutely correct.
As I said, I'm not even sure if I am an aspie, but if that behavior is considered neurotypical, then why would I aspire to be that way? What I don't get is why they do act that way.
I find many of my problems don't come from misunderstanding "social rules," but rather finding them appalling.
Based on what I've said here, do you think it's plausible I have Asperger's?
Do you mean why do they act hostile, or why do they prop up those that do over us?
Well, both. But more directly, the latter, as that's the ultimate outcome, and as you said, it doesn't make that behavior very appealing.
Yep, good point. I certainly get that a lot.
Also, many threads on here develop a sort of underlying 'tone' that goes like "good aspies vs bad NTs" ; many people posting comments forget that there are many Neurotypicals who are:
- intelligent and have a quest for knowledge
- not shallow
- don't get emotionally involved in nonsense
- have rational and logical thinking
- get annoyed by other NTs who are shallow and use fake emotions and body language to cover up for their lack of insight or ability to comprehend
Let us remember that there are millions of NTs who, like Aspies, are annoyed with irrational and shallow behaviour of the idiots out there.
because it certainly makes it appealing to those who are deep down very hostile, or just plain shallow.
And in fact I did touch on that considerably not in my initial post, but one of the following ones....the "shallow" part, and the reason they don't want to get to know us.
At least, from my interpretation, that's what I take it you're asking about anyway.
Yep, good point. I certainly get that a lot.
Also, many threads on here develop a sort of underlying 'tone' that goes like "good aspies vs bad NTs" ; many people posting comments forget that there are many Neurotypicals who are:
- intelligent and have a quest for knowledge
- not shallow
- don't get emotionally involved in nonsense
- have rational and logical thinking
- get annoyed by other NTs who are shallow and use fake emotions and body language to cover up for their lack of insight or ability to comprehend
Let us remember that there are millions of NTs who, like Aspies, are annoyed with irrational and shallow behaviour of the idiots out there.
Well, my problem with that last part is that....they say that they are, anyway.
I'm not trying to do an Us Vs Them thing, as I did mention earlier in my piece I'm not outing all non-Autistic folks. But I do believe what I say applies to the majority of them.
My piece here is mainly to show other Autistic folks how to handle the "body language" thing using their own mental processes; basically "supercharging" their Autism to the epitome of excellence and efficiency. To do that though...I have to make a lot of examples of what we've had to experience, and how it applies.
As I even mentioned, I figured all this out....and I didn't have to fake being "normal" to do it. I'm trying to show other folks here that they don't have to, either. They've got everything they need already included in that wonderful brain of theirs, with that incredible information processing
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
And in fact I did touch on that considerably not in my initial post, but one of the following ones....the "shallow" part, and the reason they don't want to get to know us.
At least, from my interpretation, that's what I take it you're asking about anyway.
Right, but what I was saying is these NTs might not actually be that shallow. It's not that they identify with the hostile NT's behavior. Instead, they think, "While I might not approve of the hostile NT's actions toward the aspie, if I put them aside, I actually really like the hostile NT as a person. Though I don't hate the aspie, and I can see his treatment isn't fair, I don't identify with him as much. So, if I'm going to have to take sides, I'll side with the hostile NT. Not that I identify or approve of his hostility, I'm not that way deep down. But on the whole, aside from his hostility toward the aspie, I like that hostile NT better all around. The aspie I can't connect with as much, so why side with the aspie even if I feel he's being mistreated? I don't agree with the mistreatment, but I like the perpetrator better than the victim for other reasons."
I believe that's their thought process moreso than "I can relate to the shallowness and hostility because I'm that way too." They might not be that way, but if they take that out of the equation, they like the NT more than the aspie. Regardless, it's not appealing.
And in fact I did touch on that considerably not in my initial post, but one of the following ones....the "shallow" part, and the reason they don't want to get to know us.
At least, from my interpretation, that's what I take it you're asking about anyway.
Right, but what I was saying is these NTs might not actually be that shallow. It's not that they identify with the hostile NT's behavior. Instead, they think, "While I might not approve of the hostile NT's actions toward the aspie, if I put them aside, I actually really like the hostile NT as a person. Though I don't hate the aspie, and I can see his treatment isn't fair, I don't identify with him as much. So, if I'm going to have to take sides, I'll side with the hostile NT. Not that I identify or approve of his hostility, I'm not that way deep down. But on the whole, aside from his hostility toward the aspie, I like that hostile NT better all around. The aspie I can't connect with as much, so why side with the aspie even if I feel he's being mistreated? I don't agree with the mistreatment, but I like the perpetrator better than the victim for other reasons.
I'd be more inclined to agree with you on that if I didn't see it on the epic scale that I have up to this point, especially when I then just observe what I hear such people discussing most of the time; most of what I hear discussed I assure you is very petty, shallow things most of which will be forgotten five minutes down the road.
Yep, good point. I certainly get that a lot.
Also, many threads on here develop a sort of underlying 'tone' that goes like "good aspies vs bad NTs" ; many people posting comments forget that there are many Neurotypicals who are:
- intelligent and have a quest for knowledge
- not shallow
- don't get emotionally involved in nonsense
- have rational and logical thinking
- get annoyed by other NTs who are shallow and use fake emotions and body language to cover up for their lack of insight or ability to comprehend
Let us remember that there are millions of NTs who, like Aspies, are annoyed with irrational and shallow behaviour of the idiots out there.
Well, my problem with that last part is that....they say that they are, anyway.
I'm not trying to do an Us Vs Them thing, as I did mention earlier in my piece I'm not outing all non-Autistic folks. But I do believe what I say applies to the majority of them.
Yeah, from what I've seen on this form, there is a lot of Us v. Them. HOWEVER, those threads usually get several posts saying, "not all NTs are the same, we're all different people, aspies can be jerks, too," etc., as witnessed here.
Maybe this is where empathy comes in. Try to empathize with other Aspies. Just because you get along great with some NTs, would these NTs extend their tolerance to all Aspies? Or is it that they happen to like you, personally, but when it comes to Aspies they don't like, they act the same as the "bad" ones you've encountered?
The way I see it is this
There is the real world made up of facts.
And there is the illusory social world which is mostly fiction.
I prefer to deal with real life not live in a pretend fantasy world.
Most people prefer the fantasy the NT's exist to create and manipulate their own world.
Aspies prefer fact over fiction and are not interestEd In playing social hierarchy games.
_________________
Never, Never, Never Give Up
Now, this is something I've dubbed to be used as part of the process of "supercharging your Autism" as I like to call...in other words using it to your full potential, and to work for you, rather than "hindering" you. Also worth noting: I wouldn't recommend doing this to "look cool" to other people; do it solely for your own benefit.
I admit this may not necessarily work as well for low-functioning Autistic folks, but for those of you who are high-functioning, this may prove very beneficial, so I suggest you gather round and take note.
We may not be wired to pick up on various "signals" the way NTs do...but there's something our brains do--and they do it really well--that we can use in a similar way: our brains can pick up on patterns. And as hard as it may be to believe, the whole body language thing--at least from my own experiences dealing with NTs--is nothing really that complex.
I'd also like to add that I didn't crack this code intentionally; in other words, this wasn't something I was actively pursuing doing. This just came from making various mental connections( in that way that we do so well, might I add), and picking up on different patterns here and there, analyzing behavior, and reading up on a lot of human history, and decisions that humans have made since Day 1. Yes folks, I didn't actually stop pursuing the things I love to come to this understanding. I came to it simply by living my life, and working to be the best me I can be. Hopefully you'll pick up on the lesson in that; if not, it's part of the first few tips I've outlined below.
First of all, you have to accept a few things that may be very hard pills to swallow:
1. Despite what you've been told about the majority of people being wonderful, and only a few bad apples really ruining all that...it's a load. Flip it around, and there's the truth.
I came to realize this from several things: my own personal observations, reading over the 48 laws of power, and analyzing human behavior throughout history.
You may be wondering why I even would mention that; simply because I've noticed a very similar behavioral pattern from most people in general, when they don't like me...even if they're trying to hide it. Which brings me to....
2. No matter how hard you try to make them like you, and do everything to impress them, they don't like you.
I told myself a few years back "pretty much everyone hates me...and they will no matter what I do, no matter what"; and no, I didn't tell myself this to put myself down. I told myself this to assure myself there was really no point in trying to impress shallow, superficial people by attempting to half-ass social skills.
And let's face the simple fact that you can put off your favorite special interests to focus on learning social skills...and it's just not something that naturally comes to us; our brains are hard-wired for more important things than pretending that we honestly care, and desperately needing subliminal body cues from people we can't even pick up. Basically, at best we'll look really half-assed at it. So, really the choice is we can either excel at what naturally comes to us, or do a terrible job faking what our brains aren't really programmed for.
I mentioned before about getting a similar vibe from most people in general when I interact with them, and that vibe is all I need to know that they don't like me. It's a simple pattern you pick up after enough time.
Those who do like you will have display a different pattern when you interact with them.
Now, a big pattern I notice from everybody at one point or another is a simple phrase: "oh yeah?" That basically means "they don't care". Whenever I don't care, I never say that cause they subliminally fixated themselves on that term, so I like to use different terminology so they don't pick up that I don't. It's more fun to throw them off after years of them doing so to me
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Yes, I have a lot more to offer up than this, but I thought I'd start out with this; if you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll post more in a bit
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I read this twice, and I still have a hard time grasping the essence of it. Could someone smarter than me please summarize it for me? I would really like to know the answer to the body language code. (I will read it a third time now, perhaps I can understand it this time)
Edit1: So..the answer is; Live your life and look for patterns..?
Edit2: I read it a fifth time now, and I can't really see the answer, only a message; "figure it our yourself"
So I guess this wasn't an informative thread where you share the code yoú cracked, it's more a "I cracked the code, neener-neener"-post? Well, in that case, congrats, good for you.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
_________________
AQ: 42/50 || SQ: 32/80 || IQ(RPM): 138 || IRI-empathytest(PT/EC/FS/PD): 10(-7)/16(-3)/19(+3)/19(+10) || Alexithymia: 148/185 || Aspie-quiz: AS 133/200, NT 56/200
There is the real world made up of facts.
And there is the illusory social world which is mostly fiction.
I prefer to deal with real life not live in a pretend fantasy world.
Most people prefer the fantasy the NT's exist to create and manipulate their own world.
Aspies prefer fact over fiction and are not interestEd In playing social hierarchy games.
Well said, I can relate.
Personally, I wouldn't care about how NTs live their lives, even though I disagree. What bugs me is their hostility to the way I live mine. I suppose they feel our facts threaten their illusion.
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