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alwaystomorrow
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02 Dec 2013, 8:11 am

I'm not sure whether or not this was observed in the context of the study, but I think it might be a cultural thing as well?

When learning a second language, you usually get explanations of *how* things are done -- often in contrast or comparison to the respective L1. For instance, most people who've had ESL classes were probably taught at one point that the answer to "how do you do?" is not, in fact, an account of your day or mood, but simply "how do you do?", and that the answer people expect to hear when asking "how are you?" is "fine, how are you?". That's contextual information that many people with neurological difficulties or developmental delay lack in their L1 because it's implicit, but L2 teachers often do (and should!) note when things are done in a specific way.



droppy
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02 Dec 2013, 8:20 am

Yeah, I'm better in my second language as well.



beneficii
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02 Dec 2013, 9:05 am

Raziel wrote:
Ettina wrote:
I just found an Icelandic study describing three high functioning autistics who spoke Icelandic as a first language and English as a second language, and had ongoing language problems in Icelandic while having above-average ability in English.

What could cause this? It's usually thought that disabilities affecting language skills will hit a second language harder than the first, not the other way around. Anyone here better in their second language?

I know I'm not - I speak English and French, and English is both my first language and the one I'm more comfortable in. I've forgotten a lot of French, but even at my best, I preferred English. So this seems really strange to me.


The problem is, there are multiple possibilities:

1) Icelandic is more difficult than English and for an autistic brain it does not matter that much at what age a language is learned
2) Icelandic is more difficult to learn for autistic ppl than English and autistic ppl are in average better in certain languages and worse in other
3) Autistic ppl are better in foreign languages than in their own language

So, which one is right?
I dunno. :?


I think it's more to do just with time spent with the language and the frequency of its use. I know Jim Flege makes reference to that all-important factor.


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TheCrookedFingers
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02 Dec 2013, 9:23 am

I believe if I had more chances of speaking English, I would be better at it than at my first language. When I am abroad for a while, I find it quite difficult to go back to my native language, but I think that has to do with the fact that I spent a lot of time abroad as a child and still do nowadays. My understanding of English and my first language is pretty much the same.



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02 Dec 2013, 10:17 am

ExceladonCity wrote:
English is my first language. It's technically my only language. I've been studying German on my own for about a year now, so I could say that I speak German, but not fluently. Anyway, I feel that German is just straightforward enough that it feels easier than English. It's very much a "you mean what you say" type of language.


German is my native language, but I never noticed that. ^^
I feel more confortable in nearly any other language. :lol:


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Bluth
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02 Dec 2013, 11:04 am

Dutch is my first language, but I often think in English, and I sometimes have to translate from English to remember an expression in Dutch :P I also read in English more than I do in Dutch.



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02 Dec 2013, 11:10 am

beneficii wrote:
Raziel wrote:
Ettina wrote:
I just found an Icelandic study describing three high functioning autistics who spoke Icelandic as a first language and English as a second language, and had ongoing language problems in Icelandic while having above-average ability in English.

What could cause this? It's usually thought that disabilities affecting language skills will hit a second language harder than the first, not the other way around. Anyone here better in their second language?

I know I'm not - I speak English and French, and English is both my first language and the one I'm more comfortable in. I've forgotten a lot of French, but even at my best, I preferred English. So this seems really strange to me.


The problem is, there are multiple possibilities:

1) Icelandic is more difficult than English and for an autistic brain it does not matter that much at what age a language is learned
2) Icelandic is more difficult to learn for autistic ppl than English and autistic ppl are in average better in certain languages and worse in other
3) Autistic ppl are better in foreign languages than in their own language

So, which one is right?
I dunno. :?


I think it's more to do just with time spent with the language and the frequency of its use. I know Jim Flege makes reference to that all-important factor.


I don't quite believe that. I think it has more to do with how the native language and the second languages are getting processed differently in the brain.


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02 Dec 2013, 12:14 pm

I dont know if its comparable, but as high IQ autistic, I did not have specific language delays, but for me I think learning by reading and writing, was far more important then learning by hearing. So I live in a very rural place and my dad was a simple busdriver and had friends with comparable working class background, so in comparison to the other kids I was supposed to learn german with the local rural accent. I learned reading pretty early, and linked far more to the written language of books, then to that of my surrounding. So I often got asked, why I would speak standard german, instead of the local accent, but for me it was simply the normal german. While if I wanted to talk with accent, I would have to do so artificially on purpose, concentrating on it and still doing failures, which seemed weird for people, because around my social peer noone was talking standard german. So normally I should have learned the local accent far more easy because of everyone around me interacting socially that way, and instead should have needed to concentrate to speak standard german that I "only" used when reading.



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02 Dec 2013, 12:28 pm

Schneekugel wrote:
I dont know if its comparable, but as high IQ autistic, I did not have specific language delays, but for me I think learning by reading and writing, was far more important then learning by hearing. So I live in a very rural place and my dad was a simple busdriver and had friends with comparable working class background, so in comparison to the other kids I was supposed to learn german with the local rural accent. I learned reading pretty early, and linked far more to the written language of books, then to that of my surrounding. So I often got asked, why I would speak standard german, instead of the local accent, but for me it was simply the normal german. While if I wanted to talk with accent, I would have to do so artificially on purpose, concentrating on it and still doing failures, which seemed weird for people, because around my social peer noone was talking standard german. So normally I should have learned the local accent far more easy because of everyone around me interacting socially that way, and instead should have needed to concentrate to speak standard german that I "only" used when reading.


I can't also speak with an accent and also don't feel 100% confortable in my own language and sometimes make very stupid mistakes. I always found it natural when ppl don't understand my native language, but found it strange on the other hand when they didn't understand French or now Japanese, eventhough I don't understand everything myself. But that's it because those foreign languages still very a lot more natural for me than my own native language.


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02 Dec 2013, 5:20 pm

^^You can be in the gifted range and still have language delay.


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03 Dec 2013, 4:27 am

I know, but because of both being possible, and we are talking about language, I specified which of the possible options, actually occured on me. So while having no relevant speech delay, in the form that anyone mentioned I would learn speech more bad then others, still the written form that I started to learn later, had more impact on me, then the spoken form that surrounded me. So my guess is, that learning languages might be for some Aspergers/Autists simply easier in a written and "propper" form (in the meaning, that if you read an language, out of book or newspapers, then they are normally caring for it being the standard language) then by "learning by doing" as it seems to be for most NTs.



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03 Dec 2013, 7:40 am

CyclopsSummers wrote:
^^You can be in the gifted range and still have language delay.


Yes, but that it less common. I'm officially not in the gifted range and had a language delay and still managed to learn several languages.


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Alleinunterhalter
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03 Dec 2013, 8:44 am

Eglish is my second language, and I can even have some limited smalltalk in English (which I can't do in my first language)! My theory is that this is because of the way you learn a language. In the first language, while learning it as a child, you fgure out what the words are meaning, so you answer questions based on meaning. In the second language (at least in my case) you start with learning phrases for specific situations. Stuff like "how are you? - I'm fine thank you, how are you?". If somebody asks me in my first language how I feel I try to answer that question. In my second language I just reply with the learned phrase.
Additionally, since most people start learning a second language at school, this is at an age where you already have some idea about social interaction or social situations. This might make it easier to learn the "correct" (i.e. expected by others) phrases for situations you've experienced before. The very fist time somebody asks you in your first lange "how are you?", you have no idea that there is a fixed pattern how to respond. So if nobody tells you how to respond "correctly", you'll probably always do it wrong. When learning your second language, the teacher (unknowingly) also tells you about the expected reponse, when they tell you what the answer to a question like "how are you?" is.



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03 Dec 2013, 9:01 am

Alleinunterhalter wrote:
Additionally, since most people start learning a second language at school, this is at an age where you already have some idea about social interaction or social situations. This might make it easier to learn the "correct" (i.e. expected by others) phrases for situations you've experienced before. The very fist time somebody asks you in your first lange "how are you?", you have no idea that there is a fixed pattern how to respond. So if nobody tells you how to respond "correctly", you'll probably always do it wrong. When learning your second language, the teacher (unknowingly) also tells you about the expected reponse, when they tell you what the answer to a question like "how are you?" is.


Yes, I once read that autistics don't really learn subconsiously, but more consiously. But like you said with your own language (and also the social roules) noone tells you what's correct. You have to figure it out mostly on your own.


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03 Dec 2013, 9:23 am

English is my first language and French my second language. I'm much more comfortable in English. However, I do seem to have a natural ability with languages and my French is 100% self taught - while it isn't fluent I can (and do) hold conversations in French and can read French too. I don't have much experience writing French though.


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03 Dec 2013, 9:58 am

For me, reading signs and explanations on french is for me far easier then actually listening to it. I think the prob is, that because of my french mum, I do very well with having an origin french accent, when I start using my bit of french. So people dont seem to get, that I am a foreigner, and suddenly slap me with an avalanche of words in an speed that I am not able to follow, because of them being too many and too fast. While for written stuff, I can take as much time as I need and dont annoy someone, if I need to look for a certain word in my translation booklet. ^^