Aspies and society

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Yeah I adhered to rules as a kid, probably shouldn't have though....but I kinda grew out of that when I realized a lot of rules the older you get really don't make much sense, and now as an adult I disagree with some laws and can't say I never break them. Maybe they are wrong on that symptom in some ways....like maybe its something else that leads to the adherence to rules, like taking things literally or thinking it's what you're 'supposed' to do and getting stuck on the routine of it.

I mean I don't think that symptom is in the DSM...and I don't think the majority with autism typically follow rules just to follow rules.

Sweetleaf, you summed up what I was trying to say much better than I did, thanks!

Actually, we too have the instinct to be sheeps.

like other's hinted. The difference its probably, that we don't relate to NTs very well. We don't see our selves as really part of the group. This is why we kind of ignore them. That we think and communicate differently, doesn't help either.

In an aspie group, we would probably be as sheepy as them.

The problem has already been dealt with. No need to bring it up.

NTs can be diverse but their "normal brain functions" allow them to adapt to the society they created whenever they want too. When I decided to be "normal" I suddenly became the awkward kid nobody wanted to deal with or approach. The only way I could be social-able was in an annoying way that would turn off NTs. NTs have an unfair advantage, no matter what.

A socially awkward NT can become a social butterfly with the right guidance, whereas an aspie will still always have his awkwardness even if he/she has a great amount of friends (for the most part). Jesus Christ, we have a stare that will naturally turn NTs away from us! They can read facial expressions and body language and we f*****g can't!

Last edited by angryguy91 on 21 Jun 2012, 2:38 am, edited 4 times in total.

Very true. In fact, it everything was reversed (aspies as the NTs and NTs as the aspies) then aspies would be very different from what they are seen as in this world. NTs would also be very different if they were the minority. Because they would be the ones being misunderstood, they would probably be the ones having meltdowns and being awkward.

And we'd be shunning, scorning and ultimately firing that lonely woman in the office who looks everyone in the eye when she talks to them, interacts with people according to a non-verbal conversation that is all in her head only, and whose conversation during lunch doesn't teach us anything new. She'd then go to a specialist to teach her how to outgrow the disorder of having a ToM that causes her to assume things about humans and act accordingly.

I do have a place to go that is mostly Aspie and by basic (and yes mostly unspoken) agreement that NT rules of social contact need not apply. Let me tell you, a 30minute silence in a group is not awkward if no one sees a problem with it. it is not rude to push into an excited conversation that happens to be passing near one of your special interests or double back to a place that has been passed by if we are using "some form of Aspie rules". It is never awkward to not have eye contact while talking if you are among a group of Aspies that have dropped "NT behavior", The Aspie stare goes away if there is no need to make "proper NT style eye contact" while communicating. You should try finding your own group of Aspies to interact with - I bet if you and they throw out NT rules that you too can be quite sociable and happily easy going around other people!

I have one more observation to make here (and have done so before). If NTs were so great at social communication - Why is it that we must make 100% of the effort to move to imitate them for social interaction to take place? In reality we display a ton more social flexibility than the "normal" NT (all be it that it is forced on us).

SMH. I guess my post was a turn off since the only thing you could reply to it was a smiley. Well, if you wanna talk, then feel free to reply with something more sustainable.

MrPickles. I agree I should find a group of aspies. I'm just going through a weird time in my life where I lost all the friends I had (NTs too) from moving. This post was meant to comment on the NT ability to fit into the society they created, though I'm not going to lie, being on this site just makes me depressed. Makes me not feel like I'm useless and sub-human and can't fit into the life I was forced into. You know. Meh, life is weird. Finally get things straight for myself and then lose it all.

Yeah, this is my great frustration too, being unable to pick up on body language - on the subtle non-verbal clues that NT's intuitively understand without even knowing they are doing so.

But interestingly enough, it seems likely our society was created not just by NT's but by aspies too. There was an interesting blog post on the NYTimes website yesterday by Harvard biologist Edward O. Wilson discussing how human social evolution was probably driven not only by individual competition but by group-to-group competition as well. It's not hard to imagine that, far back in human history, small groups which included individuals with aspie traits (logic, reasoning, extreme focus) might have had a competitive advantage over and have been selected over other more homogenous groups.

It seems just as plausible that groups with too many aspies lacked social cohesion and thus were selected against. As a result, we have the society we now know - one in which we aspies exist yet are outnumbered by our more socially gifted (if at times logically impared) NT kin.

The upshot is that we can and do serve a purpose in our society and in the world as a whole. The down side (and it's a big down side) is that we remain misunderstood while misunderstanding others, lacking the ability to effectively understand or speak the emotional (non-verbal) language of our peers.

I don't see how the problem was dealt with or what you meant hence the confused smiley. People still get negatively generalized so clearly the problem has not been dealt with....it may have been brought up in this thread, but then it would be part of the conversation. I know neurotypicals are better able to function in society than people with various mental disorders including autism. I never have became normal so I don't know what that would do...I have attempted fitting in before but failed at it.

I am not sure a socially awkward neurotypical could become a social butterfly with guidance...maybe they can become a bit more social, but again I just don't know all these generalizations are accurate. And I am well aware one with aspergers does not really become neurotypical and fit in with that( I guess I was suggesting even some neurotypicals don't really fit in with this society even if they are generally better fit for it). I do not make eye contact, except sometimes with people I know and what do you think I was the school outcast for being able to read body language and facial expressions and then use it to my advantage? no....I mean I kinda have had a lot of these difficulties to

I fail to see what purpose I serve in this society, as a whole I hate it...if my purpose is within it well crap, that's depressing, but maybe that's the meaning of life.

I know what you're saying, angryguy, and have often felt the same way (although I don't agree with your specific examples). It's something I've thought about a lot myself.

My theory on this is that it's simply easier for NTs to follow the social norms all the time than to analyse them and decide when it is or isn't useful to follow them. They just take the path of least resistance. In every situation where there's a decision to be made you have to first decide if it's even worth deciding - that split second where you think "do I need to analyse this any further or is this simple enough to just go with my gut feel?" Most NTs are not as analytical as aspies to begin with, so that's harder for them. On the other hand, complying with social rules is easier for NTs. The cost-benefit equation is completely different! It's no wonder, then, that they often don't bother to analyse situations the way you or I would. Of course, when you're so used to doing that you may well do it even in situations which really would warrant careful analysis. (And how would you know that before doing any analysis?)

That's simple: because they are the majority and we are the minority. If you go to a foreign country and you want to communicate with the people there you could learn their language or you could try to get everyone there to learn yours - what's more likely to work? It's a matter of motivation, not abilities. NTs probably could imitate us if they really tried, but they have no need to.

I never seen a study about how we interact between us. Only this blog.
http://www.jamesmw.com/sixrules.htm

We "can't" interact socially. Is really just, interacting with NTs.



Exactly. They make the rules that suites them.

If they had to follow our rules, they would be as out of sync as us. (the blog above)