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Meltdowns from special interests?

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MarthaCannary
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25 Jun 2012, 1:14 pm

outofplace wrote:
I like your ideas but can see some flaws in them. The problem with using the hub motors for charging batteries in the trailer comes from thermodynamics. It won't be free energy as the energy required to drive them will have to come from the vehicle towing the trailer. Due to losses in efficiency (nothing is ever 100% efficient!), it will cost you more energy to drive the trailer wheels than you will receive driving them. Plus, you have to be VERY careful if you decide to power the trailer wheels rather than leaving them unpowered. A car and trailer is not the same as a train on rails. The trailer will want to push the car and will try to do that through the hitch. This can (and likely will) lead to it jack knifing the vehicle combo when things are the least bit unbalanced.

The primary problem I have with the hub motors though is unsprung weight. In essence, you are making each and every wheel that has them a bigger, more powerful gyroscope. Now some of the weight disadvantage is mitigated by replacing the brakes with the hub motors but it will still be heavier. This will make the suspension less responsive to inputs than if you didn't have the hub motors. My solution then is to mount the hub motors inboard, at the middle of the track width and drive them off of a strong set of CV axles. This lets you put the weight at the most advantageous spot in the vehicle and eliminate the unsprung weight problem. If anything, it is actually better than conventional cars in terms of unsprung weight as it still eliminates the hydraulic brakes. In turn, this allows for slightly softer spring and dampening rates to control the vehicle, leading to better ride quality for the same handling.


I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

These are the problems I was running into, I also thought of using CV axles or a transaxle (like Porsche's flywheel idea) but I was also thinking about weight. I still like the idea of hub motors for my little car, I like the idea of 4WD, and the added weight/gyroscopic effect would be welcome, but you are right about unsprung weight on the trailer. The handling dynamics would change, not for the better. I had thought of tapping into the ECU output of the TPS to control the motors on the trailer, never giving them more than 90%, I was thinking of the jack-knife effect. The trailer idea is a new one and I haven't studied it enough yet.

We should stop before we totally thread jack, if we haven't already....


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Joe90
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25 Jun 2012, 4:13 pm

My obsessions invite stress and grief into my life all the time. I'm obsessed with bus-drivers, and I used to get really upset if one of them wasn't on the bus they should have been on, and I used to go into my volunteer job slamming doors and avoiding talking to the customers by just staying out the back and doing sorting. Then when I got home I cried and cried and didn't know where to put myself.

Now the bus-drivers are swapped around each day, so not the same one is on the bus at the same times every day any more. But I haven't seen my favourite bus-driver for 12 weeks now, which is too long, and I'm starting to think he has left or something, which has caused me many tearful days. I am starting to block it from my mind a bit now, in order to be able to get on with my life.

God I hate obsessions! Don't know why we have to have them.


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outofplace
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25 Jun 2012, 5:44 pm

@MarthaCannary: I should stop, but once I get on a roll on a technical subject I just can't! :lol: The issue with the gyroscopic effect comes when it is time to change direction. This can be turning the wheel or moving it up and down. It makes it harder to control the suspension. As to other issues, I dislike the inability of current hub motor systems to free wheel. Yes, I get the benefits of regenerative braking, but there are times when it is advantageous to neither brake nor accelerate. Adding a free wheel capability to the system would allow further advancements in efficiency and thus range for an EV. For that, I would look to the DKW/SAAB/Wartburg 2 stroke drivetrains that had a freewheel built in to the transmission so that the RPS could be kept sufficiently high all the time to allow for proper oiling.

OK, I'll stop now...


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2wheels4ever
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25 Jun 2012, 11:39 pm

outofplace wrote:
@MarthaCannary: I should stop, but once I get on a roll on a technical subject I just can't! :lol: The issue with the gyroscopic effect comes when it is time to change direction. This can be turning the wheel or moving it up and down. It makes it harder to control the suspension. As to other issues, I dislike the inability of current hub motor systems to free wheel. Yes, I get the benefits of regenerative braking, but there are times when it is advantageous to neither brake nor accelerate. Adding a free wheel capability to the system would allow further advancements in efficiency and thus range for an EV. For that, I would look to the DKW/SAAB/Wartburg 2 stroke drivetrains that had a freewheel built in to the transmission so that the RPS could be kept sufficiently high all the time to allow for proper oiling.

OK, I'll stop now...


Ahem. Leaning the wheel is probably what you're looking for. Conventional IFS on cars allows for a narrow range of camber adjustment, a race car on an oval track can virtually steer itself due to the fact that the front wheels are leaning to the left all the time.

The freewheel coupled to the 2T powerplants was more of a way to sustain motorway speeds without blowing up the engine by allowing it to turn slower yet move air across the cylinder fins at the higher rate of speed. You may be thinking CVT for keeping the revs in the powerband; how do I know? My current daily rider has both. BTW as long as a 2T has its constant oil supply whether by premix or autolube it will get enough oil, just that the higher RPMs keep the ports and plugs cleaner <asks self 'obsess much?'>


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Kaelynn
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26 Jun 2012, 12:11 am

Not really meltdowns but I have been disopionted or in a bad mood or even cried due to some thing related to my current obession.



Alfonso12345
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26 Jun 2012, 9:50 am

IdahoRose wrote:
Alfonso12345 wrote:
IdahoRose wrote:
Sometimes I worry that my imaginary friends may rebel against me one day. Not because I actually believe they're real, but because my imagination makes them seem that way and my imagination has the potential to get out of control.


I can just imagine... "When Imaginary Friends Attack" Just don't ever build any machine that allows people to make their imaginary friends real. Who knows what would happen if people started using it?


Although I love my imaginary friends, I would never want them to become real and if someone ever invented a machine that allowed imaginary friends to become real, then I would not use it. A large part of the appeal of imaginary friends is that you control them. If they were to become autonomous, it would be no different than being friends with real people, which would defeat the purpose of why I have imaginary friends in the first place.

Realistically, "When Imaginary Friends Attack" would probably involve a bout of schizophrenia, something I've always been afraid of developing. But I am on a strong anti-psychotic medication, so the chance of that happening isn't very high unless I were to get off of it.


I agree. If imaginary friends ever became real, then new imaginary ones would be needed. A bout of schizophrenia sounds like it would be a horrible nightmare. At least you have a medication to help prevent it from occurring.