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Steven_Tyler77
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21 Jul 2012, 4:46 pm

This man bears the entire responsibility for his actions, as each one of us is responsible for his/her actions. Nobody else is to blame.

However, we must not downplay the role played by the larger systems this man is a part of. I don't know anything about him, but I'd like to know about his family and the way society treated him. Did he suffer any major trauma? This doesn't mean that he should be exempted in any way from his due punishment, but it's crucial that we understand why something like this happens. And why it happened before with other people, too.

As a rule of thumb, if no children are abused by their parents in a society, I'm willing to bet anything that the crime rate will be lower when they come of age.

Society is a system and we are all interconnected. We need to understand what factors are at play when a tragedy like this happens and how they interact with each other, in order to prevent them from happening. At the very least, society has failed to recognize there was potential for serious trouble with this man and direct him to seek help...


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Probably 75% Aspie, 25% NT... and 100% ADHD :)

Aspie-quiz results:
Aspie score: 138 of 200 / NT score: 78 of 200 => Very likely an Aspie.


CyborgUprising
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21 Jul 2012, 10:15 pm

Well, with the "obesity epidemic," we will be seeing larger hearts more often I'm afraid...

Now back on topic: I don't think this is a strictly NT thing. There are plenty of people who are non-NT that can use a crash-course in politeness/kindness. I'm relatively indifferent either way. People are people and as such will have different personalities by default. Some are nice, others not. That's life. I cannot comment on Holmes' mental state or condition. There's professionals who will do that. All I can say is the obvious: He needed serious help.



Verdandi
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21 Jul 2012, 11:05 pm

TwistedReflection wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
TwistedReflection wrote:
Society is not to blame for the actions of this degenerate. If anyone's to blame, it's the perpetrator, himself, for failing to acknowledge his problems and seeking help in order to resolve his apparent issues.


I would argue this interpretation. I'll try to remember to come back to it later after I've slept.


It's good to see you, too, Verdandi :wink:


Heh. My disagreement is not strictly with your main point that society is not to blame. What I was trying to phrase this morning was that I think that it's likely the perpetrator would not have realized or acknowledged that he had problems in the first place. What he did is certainly his responsibility.

TwistedReflection wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
This is not the result of the lack of anyone's large heart. It's the result of the lack of someone's moral compass and respect for life. It would be one thing to target one's oppressors. But to randomly murder innocent people is the sign of a morally decrepit monster. No excuses. No reasons. No rationalizations. Innocent lives were destroyed. To lay the blame on anyone but the perp himself is wrong.


Very well said. Whether he has AS or not is irrelevant; he murdered innocents in cold-blood and revelled in each execution, a trait of any common psychopath. That's the only area of this deviant's psychological profile that investigators should be concerned with.


Bingo. Consider me not arguing with you. :D



Verdandi
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21 Jul 2012, 11:08 pm

questor wrote:
Whether the man had mental problems or not is irrelevant. If you have mental issues that are pushing you towards actually carrying out violent acts, you need to seek help. If you are incapable of seeking help on your own, family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, and anyone else who knows you and knows you are having serious violence/mental health issues has a responsibility to see that you get help, so you don't hurt anyone, including yourself.


The problem with psychopaths (and we do not know for sure that he was a psychopath) is that they do not think they have problems. Many actually blame their victims for getting themselves killed at the psychopath's hand. Their neurology is such that they have no conscience, no capacity for guilt or remorse, and insufficient self-reflection to conclude that they need help. I am not saying that they are irredeemable monsters who cannot function in society - many do function. I am more saying that if anything is to be done about psychopathy and psychopaths, it will never come from psychopaths themselves.

I will go so far as to say that someone who does something like this has some kind of diagnosable issue. Not just psychopathy, but something that severely alters their view of the world in comparison to other people, including autistic people.