A couple of questions about mind reading

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If I learn Chinese for long enough i wont translate it back into English. I will understand Chinese "subconsciously" after a while. What do you think about that? Do you think the same could be applied to subtle emotional expressions?

they say the brain improve and adapt to whatever your using it for. Do you think your emotional recognition part of your brain can grow with enough training or do you feel you're never gonna improve your subconscious emotional detection?

I am learning French and sometimes I think in French without translating it back to English. Possibly we could learn subtle emotional expressions given help. I don't know. I guess it depends on part why we have this deficit in the first place? From what I've read our brains are slightly different to neurotypicals in a few ways. It is apparently now possible to detect our different brain functioning using MRI scanning techniques. If we lack some neural circuity associated with subconscious emotional detection maybe the techniques can be learned and used consciously instead?

I don't know if it's possible, it probably depends on the person. For me, the amount of training and monitoring required would probably interfere with the activities of eberryday life and my goals in life, so it would be maladaptive for me to do that to develop some subconscious social processing that may or may not be developed instead of learning ways to communicate moar effectively with NTs, knowing that they think differently from how I think.

it's different.
imagine that every thought, before converted to words and language, is "raw"
Then, if we focus on this thought or if we want to contemplate something we convert this thought into more precise medium-words. Language.
The reason why we think in some language and not the other is because
1. Some thought are easier to express in one language then other-mainly due to vocabulary problems
2. we got used to thinking in that language
3. we force ourselves to think in that languages, for one or another reason

it's a logical thing and it's not connected to understanding emotions. Not really.

Just noticed this thread asking if you can tell if others are bored with you:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4823130.html#4823130

Nice coincidence. I mentioned my inability to notice this a few posts back in this thread. Looks like it may be a common lacking.

Another thing: I've been told numerous times over the years by various people that I'm emotionally cold. I've never thought of myself as a cold person. However, due to the lack of recognition of emotional states and consequently not responding in the expected manner I can see how people may misinterpret that as being cold.
I think this is also part of the reason why those of us on the autistic spectrum are often accused of lacking empathy. We do have empathy. We just have difficulty knowing how the other person is feeling about something unless they explicitly tell us.

I am "reason" oriented. I need the purpose/goal in speaking/doing anything. Saying s**t just because "you have to, it is polite, it is common" is not enough reason for me.

But AS is spectrum. From zero to 100. And some of us can't find our place even at this scale

Yes I agree. I include "reason" and other mental abstractions and concepts amongst "things". I'm often lost in what can only be described as highly abstract mathematical / geometrical flows - I haven't even got appropriate words to describe this since words are not involved in it anyway. Maybe that is one reason I find language "odd" - it is like an artificial layer of functionality clumsily bolted onto my brain.

I was like that too. When I was traumatized and bitter. I went as far as saying "why did you say that!?" "why did you make that facial expression?" "why did you use that voice tone?" in a cold, offensive voice.

But, but then I realized that even talking bs is fun as long as it is fun. In other words, talking/joking/barking for the purpose of amusing yourself and killing time is fine, too.

1. If I smile do you understand that im probably in happy mood?

I think you're happy.

2. If you look at person smiling for long enough will you feel somewhat happy as well?

That depends on the situation. I can feel happy for others.

3. If someone yawns, do you think that will make you yawn as well?

Sometimes.

4. Do you understand the concept of "feeling"?

I think so. But most of the times they feel alien to me and I don't always understand why someone feels that way or why they are so upset. I find myself wondering what their problem is and I sometimes ask what is their problem if I care enough. I can also know why someone is upset but that doesn't mean I understand why. To me there is a difference between knowing and understanding.

5. Do you "feel" happy/sad/whatever?

Yes.

6. If you're listening to someone, do find yourself mimicing some of the other persons body movements/facial expressions?

I have no clue.

7. How would you define an emotion (your immediate thoughts rather than wikipedia it or trying to write a "correct" answer)?

I think of it as crying, yelling, screaming, being upset, being mad.

8. On a scale 1-10 how well are you at reading peoples emotions?

6?

TallyMan - you mean speaking is useless? I feel this way sometimes. I feel like it is hard, painfull even to speak. And very unpractical/ineffective. You need so much words to expess simple things. I am fascinated by gesture language. You take a look and know. It is clear, not so much space for subjectivity and misunderstanding (sure, I am naive )


nrau - yes I see. But greetings for example - people do not do it for fun. I have been in central Africa for some time and it was very obvious issue there, because people made very long greetings. It was like greeting ping pong, they all swapped identical 5 sentences with no true meaning (AB, BA, CD, DC, SF, FS atc. truly horrible).
And my local friend told me "you have to think we are backwards" (I guess it was written on my face ) "it is part of our culture, elderly people salute like this, I don't know why..." I don't either. Or question greetings, that's hell! "How are you?" WHY do you ask if you don't want to know? Why don't you say "hi" instead? I always reply "like I seem"...

Can see any funny part in this...

Acually I was once asked by a girl (who I later fell in love with, but that is a seperate story) how I felt about having major surgery. I went on about pain & soreness, missing the entire point of her question which was actually "Were you afraid? Did you worry you might die?"
I do not think there has ever been a more perfect example of my struggles with socialization & communication than this. It is pretty much a textbook classic for an autistic reply...
I also did not understand why the counselor during my first two years of college, who taught a "Love Class" (actually on relating with other people of the opposite sex) stated "You are not ready" ( I was infuriated at this one!). He saw things I was incapable of seeing in myself.
As for smiling? A smile does NOT make me smile except maybe from a pretty girl. It used to make a bit paranoid, wondering "what does she/he want? What is the hidden agenda here?"
Yawning? Yeah, not immune, though I overcame it once or twice by force of Will. Felt like mountain climbing in fact, very hard! LOL

Sincerely,
Matthew

well, if you don't like it, don't do it
it sometimes is easier to initiate conversation like that


anyway, you know what is annoying?
old people who are offended if you don't greet them, even if they don't want to talk to you.
like, for example, in grocery store or on the street.

Partly that speaking is useless, but also something else. Take the other day for example; my hens had layed too many eggs so I took some to give to my French neighbours. After greeting them with Bonjour I thrust out the eggs for them to take.... No! Not so fast. First my neighbours wife insisted we kiss both cheeks first then her husband wanted to shake hands with me and then came the dialogue asking about my wife etc etc. I finally managed to give them the eggs but it was hard work to get to that point. I just wanted to give them the eggs and leave, everything else was irrelevant (to me anyway).

The other problem I have with speech is that sometimes I find it difficult to articulate. Words often don't seem natural for me and it takes effort to express myself using words. Much of my though processes are non-verbal. I'm an extreme visual thinker. I see patterns and flows and visual simulations but to communicate I need to translate these thoughts into words and often things are lost in translation.

Sure I don't do it




This doesn't bother me. I simply don't care about strange people in this way. Except in wilderness where you are alone for hours and then meet someone. I greet them or smile a bit at least to demonstrate friendly intentions.

TallyMan- Exactly, I can see that vividly.

1. If I smile do you understand that im probably in happy mood?

No. I think most of the time people smile to be friendly and it has nothing to do with their mood.

2. If you look at person smiling for long enough will you feel somewhat happy as well?

If a person is smiling for a long time it starts to be creepy and I'll feel afraid.

3. If someone yawns, do you think that will make you yawn as well?

Sometimes it does.

4. Do you understand the concept of "feeling"?

Sure.

5. Do you "feel" happy/sad/whatever?

Yes.

6. If you're listening to someone, do find yourself mimicing some of the other persons body movements/facial expressions?

No. I've tried to deliberately do that, because I read that it was normal, and it felt very awkward.

7. How would you define an emotion (your immediate thoughts rather than wikipedia it or trying to write a "correct" answer)?

A sort of inner "sensation" combined with a tendency to think in a certain way, caused by hormones (I assume).

8. On a scale 1-10 how well are you at reading peoples emotions?

3. I can only read obvious emotions, like "help, I'm about to be eaten by a monster! I'm terrified!" or "My planet was just blown up and I am in deep despair, mourning the loss of my entire species and world." Other than that, just a vague sense that the person is feeling bad or good, or not even that.

There are too many reasons for someone to smile to make this decision, for me. If I assumed you were in a happy mood it gets me in trouble if you're not. (people smile to smirk too)

Haven't tried, but I think I'd just think that person was happy.
No idea until I try it, usually I can not yawn when others are yawning around me if I'm not tired (it doesn't affect me).

I understand the concept of "feeling" as it pertains to experiencing an emotion or sensation of touch but that's an intellectual understanding, not experiential

I have alexithymia, so I just have conditions that are bad or good or neutral within me. I don't "feel" sad, I just cry and feel bad. Does that make sense? I don't know what 'sad' feels like, when people say I look sad, I feel physical pain in my chest that makes me cry or want to cry. Not all people with autism have alexithymia, but most do.

Only if I think of it at the time and know what to mimic that isn't threatening. Obviously if someone turns toward me and I notice it I will turn to them too because I think that's what I'm supposed to do.


An emotion would be what your brain interprets from body signaling distress or pleasure.

1

I have to know you for a very long time to read most of your emotions. Even then I have to do a lot of 'putting things together' to know that this smile means this in that situation and something different in another. There are probably millions of facial expressions used in many different combinations, it's not natural to me to know what they are so I have to use my intellect to 'figure' out what someone is feeling and boy do I get it wrong a lot.

Example:

I just went to the store today to get some lunch and some guy was staring me up and down and looking very intently at my bag of groceries. I have NO IDEA what he was on about! He ended up going past me and looking intently at someone else... I'm not a hot chick or a weirdo so I don't usually get the attention of the public. I have a large white tiger tattoo on my forearm that has drawn a couple of looks here and there but the guy wasn't looking at that arm (that I could tell). He could've been leering at me, looking past me, thinking about something else, or not even staring at all (just I thought he was).