do you think it's harder to be a guy or a girl as an aspy?

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bruinsy33
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08 Aug 2012, 12:55 am

Hiddencreations wrote:

I really don't think it matters who it's harder for, I hate when people compare who has it worse. Everybody suffers, is it really necessary to pick apart each aspect to determine who has the worst life. If we applied who has it worse to everything the world would just be a pathetic group of people trying to cause terrible things to happen to ourselves to one up each other and gain sympathy.

It's way easier to just agree that we all have our challenges, some have a name for them and some don't.

loner1984 wrote:

IT would be easy to test, 2 people from here one of each gender will make dating profile or something, ill bet you that females will always have no problem finding friend, dates whatever. But guys will. Thats just pure hard facts.

And I don't agree with that; it's not fact, it's your opinion. I'm a female yet I don't have friends and most people shy away from me because I come across as weird. I'm almost 20 and I've never been on a date and I rarely have anybody to spend time with hence why I'm always playing Civ5 or watching movies. I stim in public, along with having sensory issues. There are some males on the spectrum who can make friends easily, but not all. Just like there are some women on the spectrum who can easily make friends, not all.

Dating and relationships are likely hard for both sexes with AS but traditionally men are supposed to be proactive and ask women out.Men with AS are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to doing this because it is extremely difficult for them.Besides the issues that you mention I really don't know why you are not in a relationship but what personally would you find more difficult: 1.working on appearing more approachable and thus attracting men who will ask you out or 2. developing the confidence to ask a man out for coffee and risk the possible rejection ?

Hiddencreations
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08 Aug 2012, 1:12 am

bruinsy33 wrote:

Hiddencreations wrote:

loner1984 wrote:

I would actually find them equally challenging. It's hard to read body language as I've always had an aversion to eye contact, so it's hard to even make myself approachable. And 2 is challenging because even though rejection is a common occurrence in my life, it doesn't make it any easier and I withdraw more with rejection.

I think that men have a hard time doing the asking and knows why they're lonely, but women have a hard time detecting when someone likes them or is asking them out and then wonders why they're lonely.

Therefore, I truly don't think either has gender has it worse as I don't think you can put a number on someone else's torment or troubles.

outofplace
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08 Aug 2012, 1:35 am

I think it ultimately depends on the individual, their particular symptoms and the environment they live in. As a broader generalization though, I think it is harder to be a male with ASD in this society than a female. Like many of the other posters have said, it all comes down to the expectation of initiation. Take someone with Asperger's who has been beaten down by other people all their life for reasons they do not understand and put them in a social situation where they are expected to not only lead but be able to read the subtle signals being sent by the other party and you have a recipe for disaster. How do you know when the moment is right for a kiss or other intimate expression if you have no way of reading the other person's signals? Sorry ladies, but you don't exactly tend to be the most easy to read people out there. I would kill (not literally) to find a woman who would just say "kiss me stupid!" to me.

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zxy8
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08 Aug 2012, 1:36 am

Tuttle wrote:

zxy8 wrote:

Tuttle wrote:

zxy8 wrote:

I would presume that men have it worse when it comes to relationships. This is because, it is often sought after that men ask women out (whereas I think both ways is fine).

When it comes to relationships, men and women have different problems types of "worse" they tend to have. The males more often don't have any sort of relationship, and end up feeling terrible because of that, and being expected to pursue. The females more often end up abused, because they have traits that make them targets in abusive relationships.

It sounds like the aspy men and women should get together. But that wouldn't happen too often.

There are actually some pretty huge downsides to ASD/ASD relationships as well as big upsides. But it does happen not infrequently. There are just only so many people with ASDs, and people still have their preferences, and relationships still take a lot of hard work. It does happen though, and it can work quite well. ASD/NT or ASD/Non-autistic but non-NT relationships also can work and work well.

But there is a huge amount more than relationships that would go into "who has it harder". Relationships are far from all of what life is. If all of my challenges were there, I'd find life far, far, easier than it is.

True.

OJani
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08 Aug 2012, 3:22 am

loner1984 wrote:

Look at this poll:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt194781.html

The distribution of the percentages, rather than their value. Need no comment.
(or maybe one, the difference is not that harsh)

OJani
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08 Aug 2012, 3:33 am

Callista wrote:

I don't really know. I'm almost never perceived as male; almost always as female. So I haven't experienced both sides of it, even though I myself am kind of androgynous, at least mentally. I know I feel most comfortable when the people around me aren't ultra-male or ultra-female, but that's probably got more to do with having things in common with others. I really don't have that much in common with an ultrafeminine woman or an ultramasculine guy.

I'm probably being pressured to conform to female gender stereotypes, but because I'm not socially astute to perceive most of it, it really doesn't bother me. What does get through is usually pretty extreme, to the point that I can't take it seriously--things like "Girls shouldn't have short hair" and "You need a good man". Those kinds of ideas just seem stupid to me. It's hard to feel much social pressure when the only thing you can detect getting pushed on you is an obviously stupid idea of what a girl should be. If I were more socially aware, maybe I'd be able to detect the subtler stuff, but that's one thing I'm sure I don't regret not being able to detect.

Well said. I feel much alike.

OJani
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08 Aug 2012, 3:50 am

outofplace wrote:

Somehow society boldly assumes that all males are strong both physically and mentally. No reason to believe that all males are like this, but it's "all over the place". A female is always expecting security for herself and her offspring and every kind of strength in the genes the male is passing down. Rejection for a male? Bear with it! Or die (out).

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08 Aug 2012, 7:05 am

infilove wrote:

ive always wondered this, for a person with aspurgers or high functioning autism, would you say its harder to be a guy or a girl? whats your opinion?

Well, I don't know how it feels to be a male, but what I can say is that in my opinion it's worse for females. The diagnostic criteria are in favour of men, or at least all the studies are based on male version of AS, so it's an utter nightmare getting diagnosed as a female and getting believed.

As a female, you are expected to want to chat and gossip and talk about inane things with the girls, something that is anathema to most people with AS.

As a female, you are expected to be polite and feminine by nature, but males can get away with being a bit blunt (it's manly).

As a female, in a mans world you are not expected to be outspoken or question the status quo. 'Leave the ideas to the men' attitude!

As a female in a relationship/marriage you are supposed to be able to take on the burden of being a wife and mother without getting stressed, who has the children on their hands mostly? Yes the woman in many cases. The dad is often working when the child's school report needs discussing with the teacher, so AS mum is left to deal with that stressful situation and so many others. You are supposed to be able to multitask seamlessly as a wife and mother. Men can often bring the money home but have to deal with the nitty gritty less.

There are so many reasons it's harder for women, the social expectations on women are huge.

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Joe90
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08 Aug 2012, 7:06 am

These sorts of threads never get us anywhere because women always say that women have it harder and guys always say that guys have it harder, and nobody wins then the thread ends up getting locked (leaving me feeling paranoid in case I'm the one who said something to get it locked, (irrational thoughts again, please ignore me)). Also different countries have different ''rules'' of social performance, so we could argue on about this sort of thing forever.

Speaking from a 22-year-old British girl, I must say women have it harder anyways, whether they're NT or not, and I don't mean as in social interaction but I mean with conformism. There seems to be a lot more ''rules'', and men seem to get away with being a bit different in public, people just think ''oh he's just a bloke, who cares'', but if a woman came across as different in her body language, people are like, ''what is that girl doing?!''
I often see men have bad posture, walk along singing/humming to themselves, and wearing ripped or even dirty clothes, but I know that if I did any of those things, I would be ridiculed, made fun of. It seems woman have to be more perfect, we have so stand up straight, wear clothes that ''go'', shave all our legs and armpits so there's not a single hair seen, and if one doesn't wear make-up or wear stylish clothes or have a hairstyle, we get accused of not taking care of ourselves. Men never have to even think about putting make-up on, plucking their eyebrows, styling their hair (unless they choose, it's not conformity obligations), and they even have the option to grow a beard if they really can't be bothered to shave, but women HAVE TO shave their legs, I bet if I wore shorts and went out without shaving my legs at all, people would be ridiculing me to death.

So you can imagine how much harder it is for Aspie women, feeling obliged to do our hair, put make-up on, and have nothing out of place. It's OK if you like being different but I don't, so that makes it harder.

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whirlingmind
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08 Aug 2012, 7:11 am

Joe90 wrote:

Joe90, I feel for you. TOWIE has made this even more likely round your way with all their fake stuff and thick make-up! I agree with you (as per my post above)

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hanyo
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08 Aug 2012, 7:16 am

Joe90 wrote:

It seems woman have to be more perfect, we have so stand up straight, wear clothes that ''go'', shave all our legs and armpits so there's not a single hair seen, and if one doesn't wear make-up or wear stylish clothes or have a hairstyle, we get accused of not taking care of ourselves. Men never have to even think about putting make-up on, plucking their eyebrows, styling their hair (unless they choose, it's not conformity obligations), and they even have the option to grow a beard if they really can't be bothered to shave, but women HAVE TO shave their legs, I bet if I wore shorts and went out without shaving my legs at all, people would be ridiculing me to death.

It sounds pretty tough where you live. I'd never survive there. I don't do things like wear make-up, pluck my eyebrows, shave, style my hair, or wear stylish clothes and no one ever says anything to me about it except to occasionally comment on how long my hair is.

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08 Aug 2012, 8:52 am

Joe90 wrote:

Speaking from a 22-year-old British girl [...] that makes it harder.

You ought to spend some time in America, preferably one of those places where the dream of the 90s is alive and there are always more men than women. `-`

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Sweetleaf
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08 Aug 2012, 9:46 am

I think it kind of depends on the individual and the severity of the disorder.

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OJani
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08 Aug 2012, 9:50 am

Joe90 wrote:

You are repeating the same thing over and over again. What else? Btw, as a male, you have to take care of your outlook too if you want to look acceptable, only it is less of an issue. Sure, you are allowed to be a bloke, but then, who cares for one? Look at the poll. And, there might be a great number of male aspies (greater than females) who are so asocial they never post on places like WP.

This thread really should be locked, along with the other similar ones, that one is true for sure. Only causes pain for everyone.

iammaz
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08 Aug 2012, 10:34 am

I don't think you can really measure one as being "harder" than the other, but that wont stop me talking about my experiences.

As a male, I can get away with a lot of ASD traits professionally. It's often incorrectly interpreted as "alpha-male" kind of bs because knowing I'm right, and sticking to it when others would back down can work out. But it does make me some enemies very fast. With relationships.. I'm doooooooomed. As far as I can tell, the only hope i ever have of dating is to do things that i'd never be able to do in a million years.

In my head it would be harder for ASD women professionally, and harder for men with relationships.
just my 2c worth.

Maz

DrPenguin
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08 Aug 2012, 11:41 am

Joe90 wrote:

You do have a good point, when I lived in London I could get away with a lot more than a woman but men still have to conform to rules as well. I had to always be dressed impeccably, suited and booted, clean shaven (ok can't imagine what shaving certain areas is like but do shave pits) with hair in place. Even now that I can be how I like for a while, you'd never see me in ripped/dirty clothes (just stubble with a silk Hawaiian shirt and shorts/jeans) as a matter of pride.

The worst part for me is you have to be the one to notice the 'subtle' signals the woman is giving so you go over and initiate the ritual (I can't understand) before you annoy them for ignoring them.

Additional Got to agree with Iammaz as well.

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