electroconvulsive therapy

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Well, it is nothing like a lobotomy. All I know is that I went back to the way I was before the ECTs. Actually, I gradually improved, too (several years later). However, I don't think that had anything to do with the ECTs.

ECTs, used correctly, can be beneficial. For instance, they supposedly are faster acting than antidepressants.

Last edited by nominalist on 18 Aug 2012, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thats pretty much the same argument used for lobotomy's frankly you should take psychiatry with a grain of salt as it is a soft science. they used to call beating people in front of a crowd revolutionary treatment.

I do. I question everything. My professors in the psychology department all know that when they have me in their class, they are going to have to be on their toes, because I am going to ask difficult questions that may not have answers yet. Psychology as a soft science--yes and no. Psychology is not heavily mathematical like physics or chemistry, but it can be quantified. We can develop psychological tests that can be scored objectively; we can use equipment that gives us hard data. We can design experiments to measure "fuzzy" things like attachment or anger by operationalizing those concepts as "How long it takes a child to calm after a separation from a parent" or "How much money a person is willing to deny an opponent in a gambling game". Psychology is becoming more testable and more formalized every day--we've come a long way since Freud. One of my professors even calls Freud "The F-word" and refuses to talk about him in class because his theories were so far off the mark. When I go into research, I'll be using statistics, conducting experiments, and using concrete criteria to answer questions like, "How big should the keys on a keyboard for people with limited mobility be?" or, "Is color-coding helpful when designing an organization aid for people with dementia?" That's psychology. We don't use ink blots anymore. Many of us don't even trust IQ tests. We remember the tragedies of lobotomies, eugenics, and institutionalization, and we're determined never to go back to those things again. When we do research, we're almost desperate to put numbers and objective criteria on everything.

Psychology isn't perfect, but we're barely a century old, as a science. Physics has been around since ancient Greece. Chemistry, since the alchemists first searched for wealth and immortality. Astronomy, since the first hominid looked up and told a story about those twinkling lights in the sky. Give us a little credit--for being such a new science, we've come very far indeed.

It is pretty risky with the memory loss. I have a friend who had ECT in her mid-30's for depression. It did actually work for her depression. But she lost her ability to remember scheduled events. She has to tell other people every appointment she has so that other people can remind her. Making plans with her is completely impossible. Luckily she doesn't mind spontaneity. So I make plans with her and then when it comes time to do the thing, I tell her and it's like an unplanned and completely spontaneous event to her.

there needs to be much more research on TCMS.

In most instances, I am against ECT. I realize there is a very very rare person where they've tried everything else and it hasn't worked for them, but it is very very extreme.

My boyfriend's dad (who is bipolar, paranoid, etc) had to be institutionalized after he was suicidal 10 years ago (he's been since released), and had it done to him shortly after. I'm not sure if these days could be an ample comparison, as he is now 57 living with dementia (while driving everyone crazy with his mania on top of it). However, it was pretty evident after ECT (and even before his dementia was evident) that he has trouble remembering things outside of a selective few group of memories (and even still, that doesn't mean the group of memories that stays or gets blocked will necessarily be just the good or the bad ones). However, he cannot remember for the life of him when his appointments are, or to relay messages if someone calls and he happens to pick up instead of letting the answering machine get it. We don't trust his memory with anything anymore.

^^^
do you think the ECT made his mental deterioration worse?

I had ECT in 2005/6 and I lost memories that I never got back. Like I don't remember meeting my husband for the first time. They told me I would get the memories back but I didn't. 2005 is pretty much gone as far as memory goes.

But I would have ECT again if I needed it as I feel it did me a lot of good. I just wanted to die right before I had it. Two psychiatrists had to agree on it being an option for me so it wasn't thought of lightly. I had 8 treatments over 3 weeks. I certainly felt a lot better afterwards. The good feeling doesn't last long though, and that is when antidepressants are meant to take over working.

It's hard to say, because even though it was obvious after he had it done that his memory was no longer good in any regard whatsoever, it's not like he takes great care of himself either. i.e. he had a knee replacement a couple of years ago, and I think they messed something up medication-wise or something went wrong because he hasn't been the same since then, he deteriorated pretty heavily after that (bf wouldln't even be surprised if his dad has even had a mini-stroke or something like that the way he's been). He has trouble remembering how to take his medicine right as well, and he's been on some pretty strong medicine because his paranoia and bipolar I doesn't respond to a lot of other medicines. But he's also the kind of person who eats a 12 pack of donuts washed down with a can of coke, and wonders why he throws up afterwards when he decides to do yard work against everyone's advice. He's VERY stubborn. So his blood sugar isn't being monitored as well as it should be, and without a doubt, this has every thing to do with his dementia. But, his mental deterioration I think is kinda like the perfect storm type of instance of all these different factors put together. I hope that makes sense.

gosh let's all pray for him, then.

I wouldn't want it done on me, that is for sure.

i'd much prefer TCMS. thank god mine is [so far, god-willing] kept under control with exercise and cognitive strategies.

Lots of people are calling ECT a "last-ditch effort," meaning that it's used as a treatment approach if nothing else is effective. However, this is not the whole truth. The other major way that ECT is used is by being an immediate treatment for very severe, suicidal depressive episodes. As much as psychiatric medications such as SSRIs may help alleviate someone's depression, at best, an SSRI will take 4-6 weeks before a patient notices any change. When dealing with a patient who is extremely suicidal and an emergency situation, there is not 4-6 hours to wait, let alone 4-6 weeks. Thus, ECT, which does not take time to kick in, may be the only option for inpatients.

TMS, on the other hand, is another treatment that does not show immediate effects. There are lots of TMS clinical studies going on at the moment, and notice how all of them require 2-3 weeks of TMS sessions. Also, using TMS in bipolar patients or in seemingly unipolar depressed patients can be risky, because there have been cases where TMS for depression ended up inducing mania.

that is why i referred to ECT as akin to a reset button on a computer.

No, it's slightly less terrible.