politely refusing offers

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I only refuse offers when I know I don't need them or don't want it.

Plus I don't understand why people would offer and then get upset when you take it. Is this also a game they play? Is it their way of testing people to see what kind of person they are?

Now it's clearer. For us, it's we sincerely want the other to have the food, more than we want it for ourselves. I call these "inverted fights" because we fight and fight for the other's interest instead of our own. I wasn't aware it was a Jewish thing, but now that you mention it, I grew up with my mom and my aunt doing these "fights", and I have these fights with people when we genuinely care for the other. My colleague gave me something I absolutely LOVE which she doesn't need, it's expensive, and I spent a few minutes trying to convince her to take it back, LOL

There's a bit more your mom didn't explain, which would make the whole issue logical to you: in the end, the person who ends up keeping the food/money is the one who "deserves" it or needs it more. Your aunt lent her home, maybe she's in a lower financial situation or a bit sick, worked hard for the party, etc. So the person who needs it less is the one who insists more, and the person who needs it more relents at some point and keeps the food/money.

Happy New Year to you too!

I don't understand why someone would offer you something if that person expected you to decline it...why bother offering it at all? I'd do away with the ridiculous expectations and take it, even at the risk of being considered rude. But I guess that is up to you!

As a NT, I can only say why I think people do that in general. Like, say I am with a friend at school and we are hanging out together. Okay, I get hungry and have money for lunch I go and buy what I want to eat but at the table my friend has nothing! So, although I am hungry and don't really want to share(lol) I have to offer or I would be considered rude to just go ahead and eat while she may be hungry as well. In the end, I might have to share, but that's how you keep friends! Since it shows I am considering her and valuing her(Friends need to feel valued). So sometimes, people offer things with hopes that the other person might say no. That's why you have to take things only if they reall insist. If they really insist therefore, you can conclude, they really don't want what they are giving away. But if you say yes too fast, it may also be rude since you still had to make sure that the person really didn't want it by allowing them to insist first.

The adults in my family (the real adults) do a lot of that inverted fighting. They do it over who picks up the cheque in a restaurant too. You sound like a really kind, good person. I'm very selfish and am also rather simple and childish in my thinking. I would not stop to consider if someone else would need something offered more than I did. I would just think they offered it to me and I want to eat it so I will take it. You're right.....my aunt would deserve it more because she worked hard at putting the dinner together. That does make sense.

Still.......I wish that she would just not offer it to my mom and I because she knows that she deserves it more rather than offering it and waiting for us to decline....... because this appeals more to my simple child like nature.....it's more direct. I even explained my action to my mom in this way "I think like a child-kidthink". But that is really just wishing that society would be different than it is.....since most adults are indirect about these kinds of things....because they're more socially sophisticated and mature and selfless and everything.......

That's an interesting example you gave because in middle school I was sitting with my friend who had a hamburger and fries and I had no money to buy lunch (I had a packed lunch but didn't like it and wasn't eating it). I kept looking at her food and she offered to buy me my own, and I accepted, with no hesitation and no promise to repay her or pay for a meal for her another time-this happened on two separate occasions! Now I would know better than to do that-if I really wanted it I'd accept but I'd pay her back the next day or buy her lunch maybe even with something extra for being so nice to me. This happened when I was 12 or 13. That girl S, who is an NT and had been nice to me when we lived close to each other and our moms carpooled- but not really a friend that I interacted with, through elementary and high school - is my real friend now-we met again in university and started being friends (miraculously). So I was selfish in the exact situation that you mentioned! But I understand your explanation or the way people think about these situations.

I'm like that with offers as well.

Well I guess it is a cultural convention and like someone else said the person who deserves the thing more is supposed to end up with it in the end. It might also be a test "if I offer this to another person and they accept it right away without considering me then they are selfish? Maybe........if so I flunked the test.

Edit: Well maybe it started as a test like that but now I guess it's just a social convention and people just do it out of habit.

I've never had your experience about the food part, so I'm unsure what to say on it. As for refusing offers, I have to deal with telemarketers calling our company often, and I just say "no thanks we're not interested" and hang up. So I'm pretty good at refusing anything now.

That's the issue, indeed. She doesn't know who needs / deserves it more. Hence the "inverted negotiation", to determine it.

Eg. I offered my friend the last pill pockets for cats I had (can only be brought by someone from the US, so quite irreplaceable). We "fought" for a while, because we weren't sure who needed them more. We both have 3 house cats and take care of strays. In the end she took them because I had a colleague coming on business from the US who might bring me more, meaning my friend needed/deserved them more.

Then she didn't use them in the end because her cat wouldn't swallow them, she didn't return them to me, and I found out her brother, who lives in the US, can bring them to her on his frequent trips. Needless to say, she's not my friend anymore (for other things too, not only this).

Only time I've noticed this about food was my aunt who offered me more of some dessert I'd just said I'd enjoyed. My parents told me later I should have refused, though when I questioned it they admitted it was a bit silly. They seemed to think the custom had started during the war when food was scarce.

I've noticed it a lot more with money - "here, let me pay"....."no, I won't hear of it"......"I insist".......but I think that's more genuine, they both really want to foot the bill. In the original food example, the offer wasn't genuine. I wouldn't do that. If I wanted to keep something I'd not offer it round. If somebody offered me food like that, I'd generally assume they meant it, unless I knew them well enough to work out that they couldn't really afford it, or if I'd been told that they had that particular quirk. I suppose it's one of these social grooming things.

I don't think anybody should feel to bad about just taking people at their word and accepting offers. Obviously I don't recommend bleeding them dry, but just as we need to know that some offers might be just a call for a social ritual, so they need to know that if they offer a thing, they may be taken at their word. I can't imagine anybody who held rigidly to that custom would survive very long in today's multicultural society.

Oy, I have real trouble with this!

I freely offer just about anything I have to others, even people who don't matter much to me. I don't know if I do this because I've learned that being nice ends up resulting in me getting hurt less, or because I undervalue my own needs, or what - it's just what I do. I assume people will take it if they want it or will use it, and I really won't offer something that I'd be sad if someone took. There isn't much I'd be sad to lose, I value the people in my world MUCH more highly than any possessions.

Accepting is so much harder! I have such a hard time getting it through my thick skull that other people don't actually mean it when they offer! It leads me to attempt to estimate their needs when I have no concept of how to weigh them - I end up either saying yes and second guessing myself, or saying no to something I wanted! Sigh...

Well I guess that makes sense....but then we (my mom and I) should just flat out say "you deserve it more because you put the party together so we're going to leave it with you". I'd prefer this anyway.

You sound like a really good person.........a better person than I am anyway.............I wish you all the best.

That's what your mom said and most people say, indeed, albeit not as drastically directly as we aspies need in order to understand what's going on. People aren't so direct because it can be touchy and since they intuit these things anyway, they don't need to.

My colleague who gave me the thing I loved - I've learnt not to expect an NT to tell me directly, but I know she gave it to me because I love this food so much AND because in her brand-new position at the office she'll be needing my good will to assist her a lot. The second part went unsaid because it'd be uncomfortable for both, but she DOES expect me to have understood it clearly. With me being an aspie, though, it took a full month for it to dawn on me.

Yes it takes me a long time to understand anything communicated indirectly like that.

It's my biggest problem with AS. With time and as we gather more experience in these things, they turn to repeat themselves and we already know. The principles are few.