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am I a Neanderthal ?

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whirlingmind
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09 Nov 2012, 8:16 am

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eric76

Maybe the Neanderthals kept good medical records (chiseled into stone?).



Ah, now I get it. Aspies are "The Flintstones" :lol: .


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eric76
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09 Nov 2012, 8:28 am

JRR wrote:
For heaven's sake, LISTEN to the person who has genetics and evolutionary psychology as their special interests, not just your 'gut instinct' on this. You know how you know your own special interests so damn well. Know that I know mine. Respect it.


For that matter, it doesn't take any knowledge of genetics or evolutionary psychology (whatever that is). Common sense is more than enough to realize how absurd it is. Of course, genetics makes the absurdity even clearer. (What is evolutionary psychology?)

One of the things I've definitely noticed since finding this web site is that a great many Aspies and suspected Aspies seem willing to grab any conjecture they can as an explanation even if that conjecture is nothing more than raw speculation.



eric76
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09 Nov 2012, 8:32 am

whirlingmind wrote:
Quote:
eric76

Maybe the Neanderthals kept good medical records (chiseled into stone?).



Ah, now I get it. Aspies are "The Flintstones" :lol: .


Good one. I wonder what the Neanderthal version of Fred Mbogo (see note) was like.

Note: From http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/D/Dr--Fred-Mbogo.html:

Quote:
Dr. Fred Mbogo: /@m�boh�goh, dok�tr fred/, n.

[Stanford] The archetypal man you don't want to see about a problem, esp. an incompetent professional; a shyster. “Do you know a good eye doctor?” “Sure, try Mbogo Eye Care and Professional Dry Cleaning.” The name comes from synergy between bogus and the original Dr. Mbogo, a witch doctor who was Gomez Addams' physician on the old Addams Family TV show. Interestingly enough, it turns out that under the rules for Swahili noun classes, ‘m-’ is the characteristic prefix of “nouns referring to human beings”. As such, “mbogo” is quite plausible as a Swahili coinage for a person having the nature of a bogon. Actually, “mbogo” is indeed a Ki-Swahili word referring to the African Cape Buffalo, syncerus caffer. It is one of the “big five” dangerous African game animals, and many people with bush experience believe it to be the most dangerous of them. Compare Bloggs Family and J. Random Hacker; see also Fred Foobar and fred.



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09 Nov 2012, 8:37 am

eric76 wrote:
... One of the things I've definitely noticed since finding this web site is that a great many Aspies and suspected Aspies seem willing to grab any conjecture they can as an explanation even if that conjecture is nothing more than raw speculation.

I've noticed the same trend. Another trend is that they seem to want to label famous people -- living and dead -- with AS/ASD, whether or not there is any real proof, as if they expect that popular opinion will be all the proof that they need.

For a bunch of "Little Professors", we can sure be un-scientific.



eric76
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09 Nov 2012, 8:40 am

Fnord wrote:
eric76 wrote:
... One of the things I've definitely noticed since finding this web site is that a great many Aspies and suspected Aspies seem willing to grab any conjecture they can as an explanation even if that conjecture is nothing more than raw speculation.

I've noticed the same trend. Another trend is that they seem to want to label famous people -- living and dead -- with AS/ASD, whether or not there is any real proof, as if they expect that popular opinion will be all the proof that they need.

For a bunch of "Little Professors", we can sure be un-scientific.


Yeah. It's rather disturbing.

It's kind of tribal in a way -- form our own tribe and drag as many people into it as possible even if they are dead.



jared34
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09 Nov 2012, 9:44 am

whirlingmind wrote:
jared34 wrote:
I'm sure most people here have heard the neanderthal theory of autism before. I first learned about it last year but I only focused on the mental part it. But then I recently read something about neanderthal physical characteristics and I seem to have a lot of them. I have an occipital bun, I have a receding chin, a protruding mouth, I'm short, I have small bones, I have a consistently body temperature, brow ridge, and low blood pressure and low heart rate. These are all rare traits among modern humans and supposedly common in neanderthals. Oh and not to mention I'm very autistic and I have ADD. So basically all the similarities that neanderthals have with autistics I also have, along with many physical characteristics.

So am I pretty much a different species ? A neanderthal to be specific. It would make perfect sense if I was.


How on earth would anyone know what blood pressure, heart rate, and body temperature a neanderthal had?!

I am small boned but quite tall. I've been told I had low blood pressure before but don't have the occipital bun thing, don't know what you mean by "consistently body temperature" but we all consistently have a body temperature if we are alive. So I apparently have contradictory features that might dispel this theory.


I don't know they know any of the scientific stuff they do about almost anything that happened thousands of years ago. But no one really disputes that stuff

and sorry I meant to say I have a consistently LOW body temperature. It's usually 96.8



EstherJ
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09 Nov 2012, 9:51 am

whirlingmind wrote:
jared34 wrote:
I'm sure most people here have heard the neanderthal theory of autism before. I first learned about it last year but I only focused on the mental part it. But then I recently read something about neanderthal physical characteristics and I seem to have a lot of them. I have an occipital bun, I have a receding chin, a protruding mouth, I'm short, I have small bones, I have a consistently body temperature, brow ridge, and low blood pressure and low heart rate. These are all rare traits among modern humans and supposedly common in neanderthals. Oh and not to mention I'm very autistic and I have ADD. So basically all the similarities that neanderthals have with autistics I also have, along with many physical characteristics.

So am I pretty much a different species ? A neanderthal to be specific. It would make perfect sense if I was.


How on earth would anyone know what blood pressure, heart rate, and body temperature a neanderthal had?!

I am small boned but quite tall. I've been told I had low blood pressure before but don't have the occipital bun thing, don't know what you mean by "consistently body temperature" but we all consistently have a body temperature if we are alive. So I apparently have contradictory features that might dispel this theory.


You can tell a LOT from people's bones....such as where they were born, if they had cancer, infections, other diseases. Your bones absorb the effects of stuff like that.

Not that I think this theory is anything to be taken seriously, but that's just me.



whirlingmind
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09 Nov 2012, 9:54 am

I still don't believe that would extend to knowing what heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure they had.


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gretchyn
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09 Nov 2012, 12:55 pm

The RDOS website has a bunch of Neanderthal/Autism information...but everyone still likes their Aspie quiz. :)



eric76
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09 Nov 2012, 2:53 pm

jared34 wrote:
I don't know they know any of the scientific stuff they do about almost anything that happened thousands of years ago. But no one really disputes that stuff.


No one disputes issues like this? Not hardly.



georgemeyer
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10 Nov 2012, 10:02 am

gretchyn wrote:
The RDOS website has a bunch of Neanderthal/Autism information...but everyone still likes their Aspie quiz. :)

I do find this amusing. It seems a common aspie motif to have people put up with your eccentricities because they enjoy something else you do.



JRR
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10 Nov 2012, 12:25 pm

eric76 wrote:
JRR wrote:
For heaven's sake, LISTEN to the person who has genetics and evolutionary psychology as their special interests, not just your 'gut instinct' on this. You know how you know your own special interests so damn well. Know that I know mine. Respect it.


For that matter, it doesn't take any knowledge of genetics or evolutionary psychology (whatever that is). Common sense is more than enough to realize how absurd it is. Of course, genetics makes the absurdity even clearer. (What is evolutionary psychology?)

One of the things I've definitely noticed since finding this web site is that a great many Aspies and suspected Aspies seem willing to grab any conjecture they can as an explanation even if that conjecture is nothing more than raw speculation.


True, indeed.

BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Evolu ... psychology

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZw3lxyuhEU[/youtube]

But, you have to read books like:

http://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Psyc ... 170&sr=1-4

http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Desire- ... 170&sr=1-1

To really get the big picture. I fully admit I read "The Evolution of Desire" for dating, but it sort of blew my aspie mind in how much it made sense in terms of raw logic. And, then it grew from there. I really wish more people here would read it, so they could see the "why" in how it works.

This shows (combined with archaeology, which has never once proven it wrong) shows what our Human Ancestors did while hanging out in our tribes at the same time Neanderthals did. And, we weren't BFF's with them! We weren't BFF's with anyone who wasn't in OUR own tribe, from OUR own family and friends. It's also helpful to just look up documentaries on isolated human tribes in the Amazon, on desolate islands off India (I'd include Africa, but we've been to all of them long, long ago), records of the behaviors of the Taino (Native Puerto Ricans) when Columbus met them, etc.



JWS
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10 Nov 2012, 2:15 pm

I at least have a noticeable brow- ridge and a large skull, so maybe I am a Neanderthal? I dunno! Hahahahaha! :wink: Before I knew ANYTHING about AS, my looks and feelings were still me! :D


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aspi-rant
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10 Nov 2012, 4:13 pm

JRR wrote:
BTW, I suppose all these South African kids had Neanderthal DNA in themselves too?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3169DOJSZvs[/youtube]

For heaven's sake, LISTEN to the person who has genetics and evolutionary psychology as their special interests, not just your 'gut instinct' on this. You know how you know your own special interests so damn well. Know that I know mine. Respect it.


how did you decide that all the autistic people shown in the footage were either Yoruba or San?

this is rather important to know, because if they all were Yoruba or San, then they did not have any neanderthal genes… and the autism/neanderthal hypothesis would be rather uncertain...

on the other hand, if you were wrong and non of them were Yoruba or San… they all had some neanderthal genes… and as the video states also autism…. thereby positively backing up the autism/neanderthal hypothesis.

maybe you should not shout that loud that you are so certain and an expert… all while you base this statement on unproven assumptions. :wink:

for your information:

RDOS - an aspie and the creator of the autism/neanderthal hypothesis, seems to have genetics as a special interest too as you'll see if you read his blog and articles.

and if you look around you will find several topics on WP where RDOS participates and explains things. he's a member here too.


EDIT:

somewhere else you wrote:

JRR wrote:
Oh wait, we have ZERO mtDNA in common with them and ZERO Y-DNA in common with them. Not a person on the planet has a single common one with them. Not one.


i am not so sure that this is correct either… unless i do not understand what i can read:

wikipedia wrote:
Additionally, in 2010, the announcement of the discovery and analysis of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from the Denisova hominin in Siberia revealed that this specimen differs from that of modern humans by 385 bases (nucleotides) in the mtDNA strand out of approximately 16,500, whereas the difference between modern humans and Neanderthals is around 202 bases. In contrast, the difference between chimpanzees and modern humans is approximately 1,462 mtDNA base pairs. Analysis of the specimen's nuclear DNA is under way and is expected to clarify whether the find is a distinct species.[8][9] Even though the Denisova hominin's mtDNA lineage predates the divergence of modern humans and Neanderthals, coalescent theory does not preclude a more recent divergence date for her nuclear DNA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_genome_project



JRR
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11 Nov 2012, 12:11 am

aspi-rant wrote:
JRR wrote:
BTW, I suppose all these South African kids had Neanderthal DNA in themselves too?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3169DOJSZvs[/youtube]

For heaven's sake, LISTEN to the person who has genetics and evolutionary psychology as their special interests, not just your 'gut instinct' on this. You know how you know your own special interests so damn well. Know that I know mine. Respect it.


how did you decide that all the autistic people shown in the footage were either Yoruba or San?

this is rather important to know, because if they all were Yoruba or San, then they did not have any neanderthal genes… and the autism/neanderthal hypothesis would be rather uncertain...

on the other hand, if you were wrong and non of them were Yoruba or San… they all had some neanderthal genes… and as the video states also autism…. thereby positively backing up the autism/neanderthal hypothesis.

maybe you should not shout that loud that you are so certain and an expert… all while you base this statement on unproven assumptions. :wink:

for your information:

RDOS - an aspie and the creator of the autism/neanderthal hypothesis, seems to have genetics as a special interest too as you'll see if you read his blog and articles.

and if you look around you will find several topics on WP where RDOS participates and explains things. he's a member here too.


EDIT:

somewhere else you wrote:

JRR wrote:
Oh wait, we have ZERO mtDNA in common with them and ZERO Y-DNA in common with them. Not a person on the planet has a single common one with them. Not one.


i am not so sure that this is correct either… unless i do not understand what i can read:

wikipedia wrote:
Additionally, in 2010, the announcement of the discovery and analysis of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from the Denisova hominin in Siberia revealed that this specimen differs from that of modern humans by 385 bases (nucleotides) in the mtDNA strand out of approximately 16,500, whereas the difference between modern humans and Neanderthals is around 202 bases. In contrast, the difference between chimpanzees and modern humans is approximately 1,462 mtDNA base pairs. Analysis of the specimen's nuclear DNA is under way and is expected to clarify whether the find is a distinct species.[8][9] Even though the Denisova hominin's mtDNA lineage predates the divergence of modern humans and Neanderthals, coalescent theory does not preclude a more recent divergence date for her nuclear DNA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_genome_project


You know, I'm just going to be sensible about this and point out that in order to uphold this theory, you're getting all these "if this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this... then it's possible." The likelihood stretches really thin when you have to go with extreme theories of Neanderthals being throughout Africa, on top of so many other things which are factual having some rare exceptions. I look at everything in the case of odds, and if you need to have a dozen exceptions for even a possibility, and having one single exception not present negates it, I tend to not look at it so highly. I know some people have a lot of emotion invested in it, but I hope you understand. And I'll look at RDOS's stuff. Sure.

Finally, yes, your understanding is not correct. What the article is saying is that we've likely got a more recent common ancestor with the Neanderthals than the Denosivans, and much further back from that, for Chimps. e.g.

Split: Humans vs Neanderthals (706kya-370kya) = ~202 bases different
Split: Humans and Neanderthals vs Denosivans (~1000kya) =~385 bases different
Split: Humans and Neanderthals and Denosivans vs Chimpanzees (4000kya-6000kya) =~1462 bases different

This is in line with everything I'm saying.

Thanks for the input, and I hope you see where I'm coming from here.



aspi-rant
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11 Nov 2012, 5:36 am

maybe he knows something interesting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU0ei9ApmsY[/youtube]


:wink: