Is Autism/Asperger a defect?

Post Reply New Topic

The small dink in the bodywork of my car (the one that only shows in a certain light) is a 'defect' from the manufacturer. Autism is a 'difference'.

I was never taught to be ashamed and erase my differences. I was raised in an eccentric family. Yet, I still view autism in general as a disorder that manifests as a complex of disabilities.
As I said, my mother and relatives are unusual, eccentric, unorthodox. Still, my mother noticed some significant problems in my behaviour, particularly in relation to how I communicate with people (for example, I wasn't a baby who sought contact even with HER, and I had this piercing stare), she came to the conclusion that something was up with me.
I grew up in a loving, understanding environment, my mother took pains to make her house the LEAST overstimulating with sensory triggers as she could, she instructed relatives to handle me with care on account of my tantrums that would follow disruptions of my personal zone and my daily routine, yet for all that accomodation, for all the pandering, autism as a disorder, and all its symptoms -at least in the high-functioning, 'mild' manifestation- was ever-present throughout my childhood.
I was never asked to conform. I walked into a world that gave me next-to-no hassle, I went to 2 special schools for a combined total of 7 years of my life, and yet, I still very obviously had a disorder in my social and communications skills, mainly, with a couple of sensory and motoric issues, a grand fear of failure, resistance to change. There were things my age peers were doing I was afraid of doing myself for no discernible logical reason, other than that I was autistic.

If your autism has ceased to be a hindrance to you somewhere along the way, good for you. I can say much the same for myself, I can function in this world as an independent adult; but it took me a long road, and much of that road involved combatting those aspects of my autism that were giving me a hard time.

You agree with this:



Generalisations like 'we notice every sound, we can talk with animals'? Seriously, that's how you view autism, as a sensory superpower? Because I don't know WHAT I must have been doing when they were handing out those abilities at the Autism Symptom Market. 'We were expert hunters and scouts in previous times'? What 'previous times'? The Early and Middle Stone Age, before the emergence of agriculture? Autistics managed to climb up to the upper echelons of nomadic tribe hierarchy in a time when social skills were so primal, that failure to communicate resulted in death by various causes? I could hardly see an out-and-out autistic child even make it to their teenage years in a pecking order like that. I could see an HFA become a 'lone wolf', though. Lacking documentation on these 'previous times', perhaps a study of extant nomadic tribes would be interesting, to see which roles autistic types tend to occupy there- IF any.

'The ONLY negative aspects' are constructed by society itself? Another sweeping generalisation, and I just have to say: no. Just no. Because I lived the experiences I described in my above paragraph, and some of the more negative aspects definitely came from my own brain.

RE: fact storage; while I like storing facts and factoids, I'm nowhere near good at it. I post on another forum where most people are not autistic, yet in general they have a better grasp on topics both scientific, cultural, and pop-cultural, that I myself have an interest in. I like storing facts, but I'm NOT good at it. I forget most of the things I read.

When 'the powers fall', they're not going to be looking for me.

DVCal, your logic escapes me. If we're defective, then why is it you believe we should not receive accommodations? If we're defective, clearly that's not our fault, and accommodations would be in order.

It's starting to appear that you think we are defective, but too bad if some of us can't deal with it without accommodations.

Are you a proponent of survival of the fittest? Do you believe that only those who can make it on their own deserve to survive?

It is not a disability exactly. I mean, we have all the functions we need to live. The things we struggle with are societal rules that don't make sense to us, and the expectations of other people who think differently to how we do.

So it is really society that disables us, not our own bodies. We are not really designed to function in their world, that is all. It doesn't make it any easier, but it doesn't mean we have a defect. I actually think society does, because (how ironic) it is inflexible and unwilling to accept a different point of view.

But I think the world we see is brighter and more beautiful for being different. If you learn about their world and follow your own, you have two points of view where they only have one. I like my life as a person with ASD, even though sometimes it is hard. This is me and it's fine. I don't feel defective at all

...I do feel sorry, frequently, for the really, really stupid, non disabled people in our society. I honestly think they have more issues and less support than we do...because people just class them as "dumb"

Lol. And I suppose a worm is disabled because it cannot run or fly.

No you have me wrong.

1. I am not totally against any accommodations; I just think too many use their Aspie status as an excuse to get accommodations. If you really need accommodations you should get them, but simply being an aspie doesn’t mean you should get accommodations.
2. I do think if you do get accommodations then it should be noted on your scores and grade. For example if you take the GRE and need an extra hour for the test when you apply for graduate school and they receive your school they should also be notified that you needed an extra hour to achieve those scores.
3. I do not believe in survival of the fittest, I do think that jobs should be done by the person who is most qualified, and I do think accommodations you used should be taken into account for this. I am also supportive of the government creating meaningful jobs for those without jobs, because I believe everyone should have a right to work. I am supportive of helping those who are too disabled to work, everyone deserves housing, healthcare, food, and other important things.

All the text below is my personal opinion. I don't claim to be right, I don't claim to know it all, I don't claim to know it any better than any of you. This is how I make sense of the autism concept, my view, my perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In the end, everyone has a preferred viewpoint which makes sense to them and that is fine.

My opinion:
First of all, the word of my choice is "Autism spectrum condition" (not disorder, not illness, not disability). Current scientific literature supports the assumption that autism is a spectral condition, i.e. it goes all the way from classic autism to NT. I agree with this definition. In my opinion there are not two groups, NT and Aspie. There are people inbetween. Re the DSM comments: The DSM may be seen as the holy bible in terms of mental health and other conditions, however many people heavily criticize it. I am not going to go into the advantages and disadvantages of a diagnostic/category system here now, but I strongly disagree with the comment that said "If you meet DSM criteria then you have a disability".

I am going to refer to NT and aspie as groups now to make this next bit easier to understand, but in reality i still think it's a spectrum.
My opinion: People who are more on the Autism side of the spectrum and people who are more on the NT side are different and they function differently. Each group has its own strenghts and weaknesses just like every single person, aspie or NT, as its own unique strenghts and weaknesses. Not one side is "better" and the other "disorded/ill/disabled". So how come that in reality autism spectrum conditions are seen as a disorder or defect?

My opinion: Because NT is the norm standard and Aspies therefore the "outcasts".

Most people are more similar to what we call the NT. As they are the majority they make the rules of how the world should work. Most importantly they make the social norms. Because NTs do well with chit chat and niceties, these are things that are considered normal and that "you do". autism is seen as a disorder because they are disadvantaged in an NT world. people forget about the advantages that an autism spectrum disorder can have (for most people anyways). forget the fact that many great people had an autism spectrum condition and forget what they have achieved.

this goes beyond this thread, but i will add it in: how should we live with this "fact" (fact = my opinion assuming it was a fact)?

this forum is called "wrong planet" and to an extent i find it a nice analogy to what i have written above. if you want, you can see people with an autism spectrum condition as people from another planet where they make the rules and they are seen as disadvantaged in a world where people who function differently make the rules. however, as it happens there is no "right planet" to return back to (at least none that we know of). i don't think we should shut ourselves off from the NT world and do the "them"/"us" game although this grouping can have a strong boost on self-esteem and group identity, esp for the minority group, i.e. aspies. In reality we should try and show people that autism spectrum conditions are not a disability and that we are not worth anything less or any less capable than people who are not on the spectrum. we should fight for acceptance of people who are different, just like people with physical "disabilities" and people from an ethnic minority have done. different people have different needs and we should strive to live in a world where everyones needs can be met as best as possible.

a nice slogan from a different context: The same, but different.

All the above is my personal opinion. I don't claim to be right, I don't claim to know it all, I don't claim to know it any better than any of you. This is how I make sense of the autism concept, my view, my perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In the end, everyone has a preferred viewpoint which makes sense to them and that is fine.

Direct answers to direct questions. You are correct. I had you somewhat wrong, which is why this post confused me.

Interesting, as this misunderstanding ties in with a conversation elsewhere (not with you). Thanks for the clarification. Another example of me forgetting my own advice.

I understand your point and agree with you somewhat, but where is the evidence to suggest that "too many" of us exploit our conditions to claim accommodations? I've met many people on the spectrum and only one fits your description. I suspect that the person I'm referring to is also misdiagnosed.



Oh yeah, that'll really encourage already reluctant prospective employers to take us on board.



I would argue that accommodations are made to allow Autistic people to become most qualified workers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in complete disagreement with you, I simply take issue with a few of the points you have made.

EXACTLY.

Bravo!

I think it sucks that society has such a negative view of "disability." I fully admit that I cannot do/have an extremely difficult doing things that most baseline humans are expected to be able to do, but it certainly doesn't make me a less worthy individual.

A lot of people seem to secretly harbor this weird yen for eugenics. I refuse to fall victim to the "disability = worse than death" mindset. Aspergers Disorder is an impairment in certain major life areas, and, consequently, I am IMPAIRED. However, I am optimistic about that impairment and willing to do what I can do, and learn how to get help for the things I can't.

Screaming that Aspergers is "just a difference" strikes me as trying really hard to pee into the wind.

I did say in another thread I was against giving things like extra time, but that was under the assumption that too many people get extra time who don’t need it, and that I feel those who get extra time should have it noted on their scores and grades. A part of me does feel that without noting these accommodations on scores and grades it is unfair to those of us who did without such accommodations.

On the other hand, I also understand the feeling of those who get accommodations and feel that such a thing would be discriminatory, truth be told if I needed accommodations I probably would be very upset if I had notations on my scores and grades as if my scores and grades aren’t equal to those without accommodations.

Perhaps. Idoesn't necessarily mean it is "wrong" however (some "defects" or "glitches" are actually beneficial, much like how some defects in a game allow you to do things otherwise not possible (like riding a horse in the clouds or when your enemies in a game are unable to attack your character because of a malfunction).

Heh.

I like that analogy. I shall steal it for future use!

I believe that the autistics are the superhumans. Nobody can deny this because Einstein was on the autistic spectrum. Yet even Einstein had his disabilities. He was a slow learner, he only got C grades, had trouble tying his shoes and couldn't memorize his own phone number. Yet in spite of his difficulties Einstein was assumed to be the smartest man in the world. Einstein was not considered to have a different intelligence but rather to be of a superior intelligence.

I took a class on Einstein in college. In this class, I learned mostly nothing, but the one thing that I did learn was that Einstein did not have bad grades in school. He did verry merry berry well in most of his classes, esp. math and science, and got passing grades in his other classes. As a child, Einstein was a good student.

I would say we probably understand each other then. I would go even further and call it empathy. The one myth about us I would love to shatter once and for all.

Long way to go though.