Prejucises by autistic people about autism

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04 Jan 2013, 3:35 pm

answeraspergers wrote:

- 1.

Ego 1. Observing ego 0.

"i would never make a statement that presumes i am a spokesperson for anyone else".
vs
"but i am the one with medically diagnosed AS and they do not have it!"

I could write loads more but its not my intent to wind you up and I fear that probably would happen.

He's not speaking for other people, but he is stating his opinion as to whether self-diagnosed people are really autistic.

I do disagree with his opinion but I do not see how these things you quoted are remotely contradictory.

btbnnyr
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04 Jan 2013, 3:42 pm

I don't care if people generalize. If someone generalizes a generalization that doesn't fit you, then you can say that you are not like that.

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04 Jan 2013, 3:44 pm

"they do not have it" sounds very much like a statement for others to me. It just sound like a statement of fact regarding an unknown thats all.

Though I really didnt want to pick everything they said to little bits.

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04 Jan 2013, 4:20 pm

And they say aspies have a hard time with generalizing but yet I see it anyway from people on the spectrum.

It does annoy me to no end when I see people on the spectrum making claims about how we can't possibly kill. When they say someone isn't autistic because he killed people, they are implying autistic people do not kill people at all. I am not saying all of them will kill someone, not all NTs kill either but anyone can kill meaning anyone with any disability or mental illness or depression or someone who is just NT without having anything wrong with them. But to question someone's diagnoses because they shot up a school is implying autistic people are immune to do such a thing. That makes no sense. Could it be because autistic people are known for following the rules and refusing to break them? But everyone with it is different so of course they can break the law. I also think some of us don't want to be stereotyped as such so we say they don't have autism.

I have even seen people on the spectrum say someone can't be autistic because they are mean or a bully or because they are manipulative or because they are a pathological liar. Then there are some who will say you are not autistic because they can't relate to you and because they are not like you. They seem to think everyone with autism is the same so if you are not like them, you are not autistic. That just tells me they don't understand autism nor the spectrum despite having it themselves. They don't even know what it is. You can still know about a condition and still not know what it is despite that you have read about it.

I was even annoyed when I saw John Robison in person and he was telling everyone how us aspies are very good with math and electronics and I just felt annoyed by it. That wasn't true for me so not all aspies are great at math and electronics. Not all aspies are fixer uppers like he was with cars. I prefer to say some aspies or say it's common in people with AS or say most aspies. But sometimes I can generalize if I were to talk about the condition and then say at the end everyone with it is different so they will not be effected by it the same way.

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04 Jan 2013, 4:25 pm

answeraspergers wrote:

He's referring to a percentage (not all) of the posters here who do not have MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED ASPERGER's. It says so in their profiles: "have Asperger's, not diagnosed".

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answeraspergers
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04 Jan 2013, 4:35 pm

i dont know how people put such high regard on formal diagnosis.

It really changes little in reality.

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04 Jan 2013, 4:40 pm

I agree with that. I don't think that being self-diagnosed means that someone is not really autistic, or thinks that being autistic is trendy. I think that people mostly self-diagnose because they have serious problems that they haven't been able to explain otherwise. They are not always correct, but they are not automatically wrong, either. I find it difficult to imagine why someone who is not autistic would want to be seen as autistic.

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04 Jan 2013, 5:07 pm

answeraspergers wrote:

i dont know how people put such high regard on formal diagnosis.

It really changes little in reality.

I've noticed this too. I've had NTs tell me I don't have it. I've had an Aspie (who has known me for a significantly longer time) tel me he thinks I have it.

I think many of us on here started off as self diagnosed. I do know a few who started off with the process of being diagnosed with mental health issues and then got their Autism diagnosis.

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04 Jan 2013, 5:16 pm

answeraspergers wrote:

i dont know how people put such high regard on formal diagnosis.

It really changes little in reality.

That's not at issue here. Someone with autism will be autistic before or after any diagnosis, and will be autistic if they are NEVER diagnosed at all.

What b9 seemed to be pointing out in his previous post, is when people tell HIM that he can't have Asperger's syndrome because of certain preconceptions from those posters about what AS 'should' be. That's the enfuriating hypocrisy.

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Last edited by CyclopsSummers on 04 Jan 2013, 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

XFilesGeek
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04 Jan 2013, 5:17 pm

Verdandi wrote:

To be fair, I didn't see anything in B9's post concerning self-diagnosis.

Personally, there are "self-diagnoses" I believe, and "official diagnoses" I hold doubts about.

I'm most skeptical of people who are not impaired, nor have had any significant impairment in their history, but who are nevertheless diagnosed "Aspergers (either through themselves or some bumbling medical authority). I don't take "Aspergers personality" seriously, and BAP is next to useless.

Quote:

I think this is the first time I have ever referred to myself as an "aspie." Hopefully it is the last as I prefer "autistic." Seriously, though. Something else I hate that is similar is that people will say "This opinion that I have great antipathy for is obviously an NT thing." Often stated with strong statements that people with AS would not say or agree with such a thing, despite the fact that several already had stated and/or agreed with such a thing.

The idea that there is an "Aspie" way to think that leads to holding a particular set of opinions is very strange to me. It seems that autistic people anywhere on the spectrum are a fairly diverse group of people, and saying something like "We Aspies..." and meaning it denies that diversity.

I think some people are just so desperate to belong to a "herd" that they'll even create one out of thin air, hence the "we Aspies" mindset.

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b9
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05 Jan 2013, 10:19 am

answeraspergers wrote:

- 1.

Ego 1. Observing ego 0.

what is this point scoring situation that you refer to?
you are someone who i do not understand because you talk in terms that are inferential, and i do not think in terms of "inference". i do not even wish to be educated as to the "meaning" behind what you said because i lazily presume that your "explanation" of what you said will be of no interest to me because i sense instinctively that it is erroneous.

answeraspergers wrote:

"i would never make a statement that presumes i am a spokesperson for anyone else".
vs
"but i am the one with medically diagnosed AS and they do not have it!"

there is no "versus" in my post. you have plucked out isolated sentences and cobbled them together to make it seem like i am contradicting myself.

the reality of the situation is that i would never speak on behalf of other people with AS because i do not think that other people with AS are constricted to behave or think as i do, and i reject the assertions from others who do speak on behalf of all autistic people who tell me i am not AS because i am not like they are. it is a perfectly circular schematic of reasoning that has seemingly eluded you.

answeraspergers wrote:

I could write loads more but its not my intent to wind you up and I fear that probably would happen.

that is another inference (that i care about your opinion). i could not be wound up by your sentiments concerning me because you have not the strength to turn my key. dump your load down the street and i will inspect it at my leisure to see whether there are any valuable contents, and if there are, i will pay you for them.
i will pay you a compliment (which you are starved of considering you chose my post to heckle with the expectation that you will attract reinforcing words from other members who you crave to impress, and who you think see me in as ill a light as you do), if you can ground me in a logical discussion about my previous post.

maybe you may not be able to bridge the words that are external to the brackets in my previous sentence to form a cogent idea of what i am saying.

even your name "answer aspergers" is illustrative of what i spoke about in my post that you are disgruntled about.

i think you have an incorrect perspective because you see things with respect to only your singular self aggrandizing mindset. maybe i am being too harsh , but i have an ill considered nature when talking to people i find to be pathologically incorrect.

sorry. i really am. i do not like to be nasty.

b9
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05 Jan 2013, 10:40 am

CyclopsSummers wrote:

answeraspergers wrote:

i dont know how people put such high regard on formal diagnosis.

It really changes little in reality.

you are correct. you have a good mind in my opinion.

i do not automatically dispute that people have AS based upon whether they are diagnosed or not. i read what they say before i discount them as not compatible with how i think. i do not discount their assertion that they have AS even if i do not identify with their posts. i am not a diagnostician, and i have no investment of mind relating to whether people really are AS or not. i just vehemently disagree with many people's posts, and i do not identify with them, and so i will not alter my core perceptions based upon posts i do not identify with.

i am open to the possibility that some AS people can be following a different tune to me. but i do suspect that many people who have adopted the identity of AS, and then proclaim that they are a spokesperson for AS are seriously mistaken.

whatever. the world keeps on spinning no matter what happens on it.

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05 Jan 2013, 11:13 am

"i lazily presume that your "explanation" of what you said will be of no interest to me because i sense instinctively that it is erroneous."

Prejudice itself i think. as in you PRE-Judge. Assume, presume what you will. But that wont make it erroneous. Its just easier for you to dismiss than to update beliefs. I understand. People who agree with you have "good minds" and those that dont are ............... the reason for this is the ego.

What eludes me is how you say "other people dont have it" when they think they do and yet "dont speak for others". If that is sound reasoning, I will stand hanging.

"with the expectation that you will attract reinforcing words from other members who you crave to impress" and "your singular self aggrandizing mindset". is this still part of your not speaking for others thing?

I took the high road and you still went for the low blows. Do you feel less angry now? How do you relate your dislike of other "superiority complex" to the content of your own post telling me all sorts of nonsense outside your boundary and that you have no basis for. Ego based projection basically.

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05 Jan 2013, 5:17 pm

Reading through posts I have this to say... you're differrent...................................................................... just like everybody else

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05 Jan 2013, 6:07 pm

b9 wrote:

ProvokesThinking wrote:

Sometimes when I read this forum there are interesting topics and interesting posters, but sometimes I get annoyed of autistic people on this forum with prejudices.

i believe that the majority of people on wrong planet do not have autism.
i think that very many people are attracted to their idea about what autism is.

they think that asperger syndrome means that the "sufferers" look younger than average for their age, and are naive to the point of "cuteness", yet intelligent to the degree that they are oblivious to their genius. asperger syndrome is an attractive "identity" for many disenfranchised people to adopt.

the people who claim that they have autism who speak in terms of "us", and who make statements that claim to be on behalf of all asperger people are, in my opinion, the least likely to be truly autistic.

statements that start with words like "us aspies tend to.." etc make me annoyed because even though i have confirmed asperger syndrome, i would never talk on behalf of anyone else who has asperger syndrome.

the angst against NT's displayed by some posters makes me think they have "adopted" the identity of autism as a rebellion to what they are not impressed with in the wide world.

i have always presumed that what goes through my mind is peculiar to me, and i would never make a statement that presumes i am a spokesperson for anyone else.

i hate sentences that start with "well us aspies are....". how arrogant. i am not like them and if they are trying to describe asperger syndrome on behalf of other asperger people, i immediately suspect they are wrong in their self diagnosis.

a defining characteristic of my mind is that i presume that no one thinks like me, and i would never speak on behalf of anyone else without consulting them.

i very much dislike the superiority complexes that many people are deluded with concerning their suspicion of their AS.

many people on this site feel superior to the rest of the world because they feel like they are in the same league as einstein or newton (or anyone of note who they hastily diagnose with AS), and in their minds, i am an unintelligent buffoon because i do not measure up to their ideals of AS. but i am the one with medically diagnosed AS and they do not have it , but they say i am too stupid to have AS, but i think they are living in a delusion of grandeur.

i know many people on this site truly do have AS, but there are more people who are just riding on a bandwagon that they wish to belong on for incorrect reasons.

I totally agree with you

I often feel disenfranchised by people on here making me feel that I'm not socially adept enough to fit in and I think to myself 'this is ridiculous!' - don't these people have some kind of social disability??

I wish there was a straightforward blood test for it and if there was I predict 3/4 of the forum members would disappear overnight and that would be before even having to take the test!

And despite myself having had an Aspergers diagnosis imposed on me (ie I never went looking for it) I'd still accept it if I turned out not to have had it all along as I have no faith at all in the whole mental health system!
I'm not heavily invested in Aspergers as an identity - a lot of others seem to be though.

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05 Jan 2013, 6:57 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

I wasn't really addressing B9's post at that point. Just commenting on skepticism about self-diagnoses. I agree that people arguing over B9's diagnosis are likely being hypocritical. He has had a fairly extensive history of diagnosis and treatment that I do not see how anyone here is qualified to dispute in detail. That is, I agree with CyclopsSummers in that regard.

Quote:

I think some people are just so desperate to belong to a "herd" that they'll even create one out of thin air, hence the "we Aspies" mindset.

Yes, that makes sense. Although one of the things that are supposed to be in that stereotypical "we Aspies" mindset is "not wanting to belong to a herd."

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