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DSMA dimercaptosuccinic acid (mercury detox therapy)

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whirlingmind
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03 Feb 2013, 11:19 am

Fnord wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
Fnord wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
Fnord wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
So, however anecdotal, lacking research evidence doesn't mean that it can't or doesn't work.
Lacking valid, scientifically determined cause-and-effect evidence, there is sufficient reason to doubt any and all testimonials, no matter how sincere the beliefs behind them.
I am open-minded. That's all it requires. Open-mindedness, not automatic doubt (unless something is downright obviously impossible).
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that all manner of disreputable people will come along and insist on trying to dump all manner of useless crap into it.
Ah, but that's where Aspie logic comes into its own. A fool with an open mind would be a dangerous thing.

... which is why I put no faith in chelation therapy.

QED


I have no particular views on chelation therapy either way, but who is to say categorically 100% fact that people who might have positive views towards it are fools? I am talking about patently ridiculous things such as someone believing if you stand on your head and count to 5,000 that you will be cured of AS (for want of a better example), anyone believing that would naturally be a fool. Any theory or therapy with some common sense to it (as well as having anecdotal evidence it may work), doesn't necessarily have to have scientific proof that it works for people to try it or have faith in it (although of course that could well come further down the line, should sufficient anecdotal evidence be forthcoming for the purse holders to think it worth their money to investigate).


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Callista
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03 Feb 2013, 12:45 pm

I wouldn't say most of them are "fools"; I'd say they're human. Human beings tend to be more affected by emotional information such as testimonials than by statistics, which don't come naturally to most of us. It makes sense that most of us reason with our emotions playing a large part, because without emotions to draw us quickly to a workable conclusion, we wouldn't be able to decide on things quickly enough to survive in dangerous situations. So, emotional decision-making is a good thing. It's less accurate, but it's faster, and it can pull together things you weren't consciously thinking about to draw a conclusion.

The trouble is when this sort of intuitive decision-making gets mixed up with numbers and science, because the human brain isn't really built to use abstract logic as a "first language". We have to learn it. So somebody who is using intuitive decision-making may subconsciously weight a well-written testimonial much more heavily than a well-designed experiment. In order to come to a proper conclusion, they would have to actually learn about formal logic, to some degree, in order to identify fallacies that come from using intuition in areas where it'll lead you astray.

Sometimes people don't understand that this problem even exists. And when they don't, they don't realize that their conclusions could be wrong.

This is why we should teach a course in logic, probability, and statistics as a required course in high school. Teach them algebra, statistics, and basic geometry, and they'll have what they need. Most people don't need to go for geometry proofs, trig, or calculus in high school; much as I love those subjects, they are not nearly as applicable to daily life as statistics.


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Ekor
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03 Feb 2013, 8:25 pm

Callista wrote:
Autism and mercury poisoning have totally different symptoms. Both have neurological aspects but that's about where the similarity stops.

I am still not convinced that autistics really have higher mercury levels, because I can also find quite a few studies which show no significant difference between mercury measured in autistics and non-autistics, and they're in peer-reviewed journals.

I am trying to find a good meta-analysis, but I haven't tracked one down yet. Granted, I haven't spent much time on it.

Mercury poisoning is no laughing matter. If you had mercury poisoning, you would be very sick. If you were so unable to remove mercury from your body that you began showing symptoms of mercury poisoning, you would probably also be showing symptoms of kidney or liver disease.

I really don't like the mercury hypothesis. It doesn't sound very plausible to me and there really hasn't been any solid evidence to back it up. In terms of the things which can be done to improve the lives of autistic people by changing their physical condition, the best evidence we have is that which applies to human beings in general--good nutrition, physical activity, sunshine, proper management of any chronic health problems.


Any study you've seen is completely useless because they do not measure mercury levels in the BRAIN.

Hair/urine/blood analysis are useless.



whirlingmind
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03 Feb 2013, 9:05 pm

Callista wrote:
Autism and mercury poisoning have totally different symptoms. Both have neurological aspects but that's about where the similarity stops.

I am still not convinced that autistics really have higher mercury levels, because I can also find quite a few studies which show no significant difference between mercury measured in autistics and non-autistics, and they're in peer-reviewed journals.

I am trying to find a good meta-analysis, but I haven't tracked one down yet. Granted, I haven't spent much time on it.

Mercury poisoning is no laughing matter. If you had mercury poisoning, you would be very sick. If you were so unable to remove mercury from your body that you began showing symptoms of mercury poisoning, you would probably also be showing symptoms of kidney or liver disease.

I really don't like the mercury hypothesis. It doesn't sound very plausible to me and there really hasn't been any solid evidence to back it up. In terms of the things which can be done to improve the lives of autistic people by changing their physical condition, the best evidence we have is that which applies to human beings in general--good nutrition, physical activity, sunshine, proper management of any chronic health problems.


http://www.icdrc.org/documents/Mercury% ... Autism.pdf

Quote:
A review of medical literature has shown that exposure to mercury, whether organic or inorganic, can give rise to the symptoms and traits defining or commonly found in ASD individuals. Mercury can cause impairments in social interaction, communication difficulties, and repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, which comprise the three DSM-IV autism diagnostic criteria. Additionally, mercury can induce features prominent in ASD such as sensory abnormalities, emotional/psychological changes, movement disorder, impairments in abstract or complex thinking, severe sleep disturbances, and self injurious behavior. Males are more affected than females in both conditions.

Physiological abnormalities more common in ASD populations and known to be caused by mercury exposure include gastrointestinal problems, autonomic nervous system disturbance, unusual EEG activity, immune system alterations, irregularities in neurotransmitter systems, and non-specific brain lesions.


http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&ou ... 00&bih=928


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kate123A
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03 Feb 2013, 10:33 pm

I'm taking DMSA for lead poisoning(I've had several exposures and have had kidney problems) anyways.......it is helping some things that make me miserable. I have several food intolerances and yeast issues due to immune issues. Detox supposedly will help with food intolerances and my kidney function will improve.

As for it helping my autism......it does help make me less miserable.....but aside from that nothing major.



Ekor
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04 Feb 2013, 9:39 pm

kate123A wrote:
I'm taking DMSA for lead poisoning(I've had several exposures and have had kidney problems) anyways.......it is helping some things that make me miserable. I have several food intolerances and yeast issues due to immune issues. Detox supposedly will help with food intolerances and my kidney function will improve.

As for it helping my autism......it does help make me less miserable.....but aside from that nothing major.


DMSA does not cross the blood brain barrier and therefore only chelates the mercury NOT in your brain.



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05 Feb 2013, 1:01 pm

It's a great big money making con foisted onto naive and desperate parents. These are the idiots that are trying to brainwash people into believing that the medical establishment and the pharmecutical companies are trying to intentionally poison your children with vaccines. It is the same conspiratorial nonsense as believing in the New World Order or the illuminati.

Stick to real science.



roseblood
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06 Feb 2013, 3:22 pm

MindBlind wrote:
It's a great big money making con foisted onto naive and desperate parents. These are the idiots that are trying to brainwash people into believing that the medical establishment and the pharmecutical companies are trying to intentionally poison your children with vaccines. It is the same conspiratorial nonsense as believing in the New World Order or the illuminati.

The bolded is what's conspiratorial. Someone doesn't have to think it's deliberate to acknowledge that our environment is toxic and has been to greater and lesser degrees for many decades. Did you not even hear about the widely reported findings from a huge study of mercury toxicity across multiple countries? 1 in 3 people sampled had levels of mercury above what's currently classed as safe.

Mercury has never JUST been found in vaccines, that's just a small proportion of it - especially now that it's been mostly phased out of them and that our seas have accumulated so much over the years - and I've never seen anyone claim otherwise. Distracting people from the science at hand by pretending that those you disagree with are against vaccines, instead of specifically against the unnecessary inclusion of mercury in some vaccines among OTHER past, present and future causes of mercury exposure, is tiresome and transparent.