Nurtured into Asperger's

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I'm moving to Maryland in a few months (well working in D.C., living in Maryland, because Northern Virginia is too pretentious lol). I lived in Hyattsville, MD before.

How "severe" was your homeschooling if I may ask?

Seeing all your questions and answers makes me realize that I wasn't as thorough in my explanation as I should have been. Allow me to try and reexplain better.

During my diagnosis, I took multiple tests designed for AS and just general personality. My therapist also talked to both of my parents about how I was growing up.

What she got from my parents was that growing up, I didn't show any traditional symptoms (repetitive motion, etc.). Also, my father was gone a lot for work, and my mother was emotionally distant and tended to pull away when I made friends.

As for me, all through elementary school I was teased pretty brutally (from my point of view) and didn't have very many friends.

For the tests, I did test positive as an adult for Asperger's. Also, the personality test showed that, while I'm not one who seeks to be the center of attention, I am rather extroverted.

And writing this out makes me want to get a copy of the feedback report.

Back to topic!

@Tahitiii: I don't know. I can tell you that as a kid, I had very very few friends, and I much preferred legos, animals or just being alone to the company of people.
For the diagnosis, I don't know. After dealing with depression for around ten years (ages 8 to 18), I ended up having to push my parents into getting me into therapy and onto medication.
Yes, it does help make sense of the world. Because whether its hardcoded into my genes or wired into my brain through years of how I lived, it is there.

@answeraspergers: It never is that clear cut, sadly.

@MjrMajorMajor: Its highly likely that it just wasn't noticed. My dad wasn't around much and my mom can be very distant...

@idratherbeatree: Yes, they can. Especially mine. And yes I am. I'm weird and geeky and nerd and I friggin' love it!

@epitome81: Indeed. And learning more about my parents when they were younger, things start to make more sense.

@Tyri0n: I'm the most pragmatic child of the most pragmatic child (my mother). I was not homeschooled, but living several miles outside of town during most of my childhood meant that I was basically raised and befriended by my mother and three sisters.

@Apple_in_my_Eye: From my parents. I wouldn't doubt the first, or the second, or the third.

@whirlingmind: I don't see my therapist again until next week, but I'll try to remember to ask her about it. Both of those have happened to me. A lot of those have happened or are happening to me.

@Tahitiii: Yes! I know that feeling! Its even worse on days when I get flustered because if feels like my thoughts aren't in English, so I have a hard time just figuring out what to say, and then people don't understand it at all.

@btnnyr: Statement made. Proof?

@Marcia: Statement made. Proof?

@Dillogic: Nope. I don't shy away from social interaction, I'm just not very good at it. And I can be quite funny when I try, or when I'm on a roll.

@InThisTogether: From my parents. Though, I do try to be a reliable historian. And it could go either way. I could have things about me that I refuse to accept, and I could have things that I think I have that I don't. For the AS, that's why I'm here. I have a huge group of people who are much more knowledgeable about these than I am, and probably more so than my therapist.

Autism was originally identified by Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger as a childhood developmental disorder in the children that they studied. Kanner referred to it as an "inborn disturbance". Asperger Syndrome was invented in the 1980s to label high-functioning verbal autistic children without intellectual disability. AS and autism are mentioned as developmental disorders or having childhood onset in most publications about these topics.

If you didn't have autistic traits in childhood, then you don't have any form of autism. If you had obvious autistic traits and your parents didn't identify them to the psych, then that is a problem that caused the psych to rule out AS. If you had autistic traits at a mild level, then perhaps your parents didn't notice them when you were growing up, or maybe they thought that your traits were normal. But even so, they should recognize the traits in a questionnaire or when the psych asks if you had X trait, Y trait, Z trait.

I refer again to these (especially the passive sub-type):

Stilted
"Few, if any clues to the underlying subtle handicap upon first meeting. The features of AS are particularly frequent. Early histories vary. Normal range of ability with some peaks of performance. Polite and conventional. Manage well at work. Sometimes pompous and long-winded style of speech. Problems arise in family relationships, where spontaneity and empathy are required. Poor judgement as to the relative importance of different demands on their time. Characteristically pursue interests to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. May have temper tantrums or aggression if routine broken at home, but are polite at work. Diagnosis very often missed. Most attend mainstream schools. Independence achieved in most cases. This group shades into the eccentric end of normality."

Passive
"Often amiable, gentle, and easily led. Those passive rather than aloof from infancy may fit AS. More likely than the aloof to have had a mainstream education, and their psych skill profiles are less uneven. Social approaches passively accepted (little response or show of feelings). Characteristic autistic egocentricity less obvious in this group than in others. Activities are limited and repetitive, but less so than other autistics. Can react with unexpected anger or distress. Recognition of their autism depends more on observing the absence of the social and creative aspects of normal development than the presence of positive abnormalities. The general amenability is an advantage in work, and they are reliable, but sometimes their passivity and naivete can cause great problems. If undiagnosed, parents and teachers may be disappointed they cannot keep a job at the level predicted from their schoolwork."

There is always the chance that traits were missed because parents didn't want to admit even to themselves that their child had unusual behaviour as well. Parents forget things, have psychological issues or drugs/alcohol that makes their memories unreliable and all sorts of things. It doesn't mean there were no traits necessarily.

Also, if you're just going with how it was originally defined 30 years ago, you're way off. How we understand things changes over time.

Fun fact: In the 1960's, being a lesbian was considered a form of insanity and, as such, could be used to declare you mentally incompetent.

Now, if you were to suggest that someone was insane because they were a lesbian, you would be the one who's sanity would be in question.

Its possible, even probable, that traits were missed when I was a child. As I stated, my father wasn't around that much and my mother's closeness to me was variable.

Something about lesbians has nothing to do with this discussion.

Autism has always been defined as a childhood developmental disorder. Many details have been learned and understanding changed over the decades since its identification, but this fact has always remained the same.

People suggest varieties of "if you're lesbian, you're insane" somewhat regularly. Less so than even ten years ago, but I've encountered the sentiment often enough. It is not often refuted as "you're crazy to think that" because it feeds directly into homophobia and misogyny. There are guys who still say that all lesbians need is sex with the right man to "fix them" and cases of "corrective rape" still occur.

Anyway, as btbnnyr said, this has nothing to do with the discussion. I find it problematic when autistic people try to use this specific comparison to homosexuality having been considered a mental illness as a reason to justify autism (or more specifically, Asperger's) not being a disorder. The reason that homosexuality was removed from the DSM is, very simply, that it was easily demonstrable that the problems that came from being gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. were almost entirely due to society's lack of acceptance. This is completely unlike autism and AS, which tends to feature actual impairments that are not strictly due to lack of acceptance, even though lack of acceptance certainly exacerbates things.

There’s a difference between “fact” and “definition.” With Asperger’s, it’s more of a philosophical issue and a civil rights issue than a mental health issue. We know what we are, and it’s not at all what they think. Big chunks of their definition are just plain wrong.
Comparisons to other civil rights groups are still valid, even if imperfect. It’s not the whole story, but it is a huge part. It doesn’t just exacerbate things – some problems are outright caused by the harassment, even from people with good intentions.

I would also use comparisons to people who are left-handed and who, in the distant past, were subjected to brutal "cures."
Or even to the genetic tragedy of being born female. [Those with the sense to be born with a "Y" chromosome never get cervical cancer] There are real differences between people, and those differences can cause problems. But nothing like the problems an unaccepting world creates.

An additional note to the OP on this: The DSM5 criteria for autism will include the caveat that autistic traits may not fully manifest themselves until you're a teen or young adult; however, ASD traits still need to be present during childhood for a diagnosis, even under the revised criteria.

That makes so little sense its unreal. No history and the most autistic person on earth cant get a dx.

Ignore DSM and its stupid corrupt panel.

Of course it makes sense - some people don't HAVE a history to offer (no living parents or documentation from school, etc). They are still entitled to a diagnosis. In my case the only person who can supply childhood history is my mother, and if she wasn't around I would have "no history". My psychologist said she would still diagnose me.

The exact working of the new criteria is "may not become fully manifest until demands exceed limited capacity". This is a very important distinction and in my opinion a very intelligent addition to the criteria. Some autistic children are able to cope in childhood because their parents are in charge and they can withdraw from the world and have everything done for them, and therefore no major symptoms may be picked up. However, when they are expected to develop independence, they fall apart. I have spoken to many others here who followed the same trajectory as this, and because we are struggling as adults as much as anyone else with AS/HFA, it's important that this is recognised.

There are also many ways for mild autistic symptoms to be overlooked in childhood, especially in the 80s-90s when most professionals didn't have a good understanding of it, and I'm not sure why a few people seem to have resistance to that idea. The "passive" subtype is a perfect description of me. I was quiet but obedient and and completed my schoolwork to a high standard. My parents were happy to have such a well-behaved child and because there was another child I followed around, they didn't consider the lack of seeking out any other social relationships strange.

It's also true that some psychologists, particularly the ones who aren't experts in ASDs, don't keep up with the more recent progression of understanding of ASDs. OP, if you feel uncomfortable with your outcome, you are entitled to a second opinion and I recommend that you get one (with someone experienced with adult ASDs if you can find them). Whether the outcome is the same or different, at least then you have an answer you can be more confident in.

Low functioning autism, yes. But high functioning autism has been going back and forth.

And even when they were called disabled, they weren't necessarily called autistic.

Edit: And this is assuming that by 'always' you mean 'as long as we've had the concept of developmental disorders'. Which is about the mid 1800s on. Before then, people tended to explain such things with supernatural explanations instead.

Something about 1800s and supernatural has nothing to do with this discussion. Neither does something about calling people disabled or autistic or whatever. No idear why there would be a lfa/hfa split on the issue of having autistic traits in childhood to be diagnosed with a developmental disorder.

As far as I understand, the OP's current situation is that his parents were available to provide information about his childhood, but answered negatively to questions about autistic traits in childhood. So either he did not have the traits and does not have autism, or he did have the traits, but his parents did not notice them at the time, did not remember them over time, or for some other reason, did not report them to the psych. Either way, the psych is correct to say that lack of autistic traits in childhood means lack of autism.

That is somewhat brilliant. And it’s not just a protected (or in my case, neglected) childhood that can keep symptoms invisible.

I was a basket case as a kid, but I did fairly well as a young adult, for reasons that I didn’t appreciate until recently.
The two biggest differences between then and now are (1) looks and (2) brains.
I hate to finally have to admit it, but the biggest part of success is looks. I naively believed that I was getting by because I was
competent at my job. When they say “age discrimination,” I think it mostly means that you’re not pretty enough anymore.
Then there’s my decreasing mental capacity. I suspect that I’m in the very early stages of Vascular Dementia. I used to be able
to work around my deficiencies on brain power alone. Now the extra brain power is gone, and I can’t do things I used to do.
I can’t learn new things the way I did.
In my world today, the “demands exceed limited capacity" very much.

well. Your therapist isn't the be all end all and she didn't know you then.

But, l kind of thought there might be another pattern or even another disorder that isn't recognized.

lt's common for most of the officially recognized "mental illnesses" to have a later onset. What makes AS a PDD is that it is not a mental illness.

When you see the overlap between AS and so many other disorders, l think it's possible that autistic traits could manifest in early adulthood in some people, much like schizophrenic traits and bipolar disorder does. Or that there is one more than one pattern of "autism" although by the current definitions, it wouldn't be described as such.

Just a theory, it may mean that the kind of AS traits you have will never be as severe if your wiring really was going along with it's NT plans in childhood

l'm somewhere in between with having some traits in childhood that disappeared, sand having some in adulthood that seemed to pop out of nowhere.

My point here being that l think autistic behaviors can manifest in more ways than what is described in the DSM and that you can exist outside of a label(or that a label for you may someday exist).