In what way do you feel this planet is the wrong planet?

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whirlingmind
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12 Feb 2013, 7:41 pm

Ettina wrote:
I don't think autistics are any more or less moral than NTs. We just approach things differently.


Actually Aspies are known generally to be very honest and moralistic, significantly more so than many NTs.


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Dragoness
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12 Feb 2013, 10:56 pm

qawer wrote:
In the neurotypical world (the world we know):
- any action based on true altruism is punished.
- any action based on egoism is rewarded.
The neurotypical world is UNFAIR. The less of a f**k you give the better.


That's pretty much true, and I agree with you. However, kindness is not always punished, and egoism is not always rewarded. That's what usually happens, but not always. In nature, however ... let's just say it's nothing like Bambi .



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13 Feb 2013, 4:07 am

I live on my own planet inside my head which is inside my room with all my things. I like it here all by myself with all my things.
The wrong planet is out there where I go to buy groceries or walk around. But it is not really wrong, it is just not my planet. Even when I am out there on that other planet I am still on my own planet.



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13 Feb 2013, 8:08 am

Ettina wrote:
Quote:
(1) In the neurotypical world (the world we know):
- any action based on true altruism is punished.
- any action based on egoism is rewarded.

(2) In the autistic world:
- any action based on true altruism is rewarded.
- any action based on egoism is punished.


I think you are prejudiced against NTs. My NT mother has always rewarded altruism. Most NTs agree that altruism is a good thing.

I don't think autistics are any more or less moral than NTs. We just approach things differently.

I agree with your view on the topic.



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13 Feb 2013, 1:41 pm

Dragoness wrote:
qawer wrote:
In the neurotypical world (the world we know):
- any action based on true altruism is punished.
- any action based on egoism is rewarded.
The neurotypical world is UNFAIR. The less of a f**k you give the better.


That's pretty much true, and I agree with you. However, kindness is not always punished, and egoism is not always rewarded. That's what usually happens, but not always. In nature, however ... let's just say it's nothing like Bambi .



Perhaps we don't think about it the same way. Egoism is not always rewarded, but that is only when it is "revealed" that you are being egoistic. If you lie to achieve a goal and you get away with it, it DOES become an advantage to lie in that case. Even if it might hurt others. Nature is not fair in that respect.

In my eyes you should be rewarded for your true intentions (what I refer to as "true altruism"), not for what you can get away with.

On the dating scene you should generally be "mean" towards others to be considered mentally healthy. If you are better looking for instance, you should consider yourself to be better in that respect compared to not so good-looking individuals. In the end relationships are contracts where both partners benefit. If they didn't both benefit the relationship would fall apart.

That's the big problem with this world:

SUPERFICIALITY IS A SIGN OF A HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL. It's all about who has the most self-confidence - who is the better survivor? I would like to live in a world full of true love, not these conditional contracts.



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13 Feb 2013, 2:50 pm

This other (wrong) planet is inhabited by strange masked creatures who relate to other masked creatures only through their masks. It's rather bizarre.

This unique mask wearing ability was the result of a long divergent evolution away from the other inhabitants of this other planet who don't wear masks. These non-mask wearing inhabitants come in all shapes and sizes and textures and they sometimes walk, sometimes fly, and sometimes crawl. They are all around me and are uniquely intelligent and are often my best friends.

I do belong to the same species as the mask wearing creatures but I am disabled because of not being able to wear a mask and so cannot relate to the masked creatures in their way of relating. Not wearing a mask is considered a weakness on this other planet and one without a mask is seen as being naive and childlike and inferior to those with elaborate and strange masks.



Last edited by Marybird on 13 Feb 2013, 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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13 Feb 2013, 3:00 pm

Marybird wrote:
This other (wrong) planet is inhabited by strange masked creatures who relate to other masked creatures only through their masks. It's rather bazaar.

This unique mask wearing was the result of a long divergent evolution away from the other inhabitants of this other planet who don't wear masks. These non-mask wearing inhabitants come in all shapes and sizes and textures and they sometimes walk, sometimes fly, and sometimes crawl. They are all around me and are uniquely intelligent and are often my best friends.

I do belong to the same species as the mask wearing creatures but I am disabled because of not being able to wear a mask and so cannot relate to the masked creatures in their way of relating. Not wearing a mask is considered a weakness on this other planet and one without a mask is seen as being naive and childlike and inferior to those with elaborate and strange masks.


Awesome. :)



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13 Feb 2013, 9:45 pm

qawer wrote:
Love should be unconditional.


No it shouldn't. Why should we love people without regard to what they do or who they are? We would end up loving murderers, dictators, and sociopaths.



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13 Feb 2013, 10:41 pm

qawer wrote:
Dragoness wrote:
qawer wrote:
In the neurotypical world (the world we know):
- any action based on true altruism is punished.
- any action based on egoism is rewarded.
The neurotypical world is UNFAIR. The less of a f**k you give the better.


That's pretty much true, and I agree with you. However, kindness is not always punished, and egoism is not always rewarded. That's what usually happens, but not always. In nature, however ... let's just say it's nothing like Bambi .



Perhaps we don't think about it the same way. Egoism is not always rewarded, but that is only when it is "revealed" that you are being egoistic. If you lie to achieve a goal and you get away with it, it DOES become an advantage to lie in that case. Even if it might hurt others. Nature is not fair in that respect.

In my eyes you should be rewarded for your true intentions (what I refer to as "true altruism"), not for what you can get away with.

On the dating scene you should generally be "mean" towards others to be considered mentally healthy. If you are better looking for instance, you should consider yourself to be better in that respect compared to not so good-looking individuals. In the end relationships are contracts where both partners benefit. If they didn't both benefit the relationship would fall apart.

That's the big problem with this world:

SUPERFICIALITY IS A SIGN OF A HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL. It's all about who has the most self-confidence - who is the better survivor? I would like to live in a world full of true love, not these conditional contracts.


Again, I pretty much agree with you. However, I don't like to say "always" or "never" about being rewarded for egoism and such, because sometimes egoism is not rewarded. Oftentimes. Not always.



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13 Feb 2013, 10:44 pm

Marybird wrote:
This other (wrong) planet is inhabited by strange masked creatures who relate to other masked creatures only through their masks. It's rather bizarre.

This unique mask wearing ability was the result of a long divergent evolution away from the other inhabitants of this other planet who don't wear masks. These non-mask wearing inhabitants come in all shapes and sizes and textures and they sometimes walk, sometimes fly, and sometimes crawl. They are all around me and are uniquely intelligent and are often my best friends.

I do belong to the same species as the mask wearing creatures but I am disabled because of not being able to wear a mask and so cannot relate to the masked creatures in their way of relating. Not wearing a mask is considered a weakness on this other planet and one without a mask is seen as being naive and childlike and inferior to those with elaborate and strange masks.


This reminds of the Jim Carrey movie The Mask. There was someone in the movie who had written a book on this subject - he wasn't a main character, but he did have some influence on the plot.



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13 Feb 2013, 10:49 pm

starkid wrote:
qawer wrote:
Love should be unconditional.


No it shouldn't. Why should we love people without regard to what they do or who they are? We would end up loving murderers, dictators, and sociopaths.


You have a very negative opinion about love, apparently ...

And everybody, I'm sorry I put so many posts on the same thread one after the other. But I thought each quote deserved to be put in a different post, because they are talking about different subjects, and if I put them all on one post, then we'd have one really long post. My apologies to anyone who is offended by my multiple posts at once.



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13 Feb 2013, 10:51 pm

qawer wrote:
I am curious as to why you guys feel this planet is the wrong planet?


Quote:
(1) Do you think you landed on the wrong planet/world?


Yes

Quote:
(2) In what way is this the wrong planet/world?


Clearly the people living here think differently than we do. Things we find funny they do not. Things that are not funny are funny to them. Basically I perceive things differently and have very narrow interest. Bright colors and loud noises make me feel confused, disorientated and irritated. People don't explain themselves clearly, they utilize multiple forms of communication; Non-verbal communication is just as important as verbal if not more so; especially among those of the female gender.


Quote:
(3) How should the planet/world be if it was to be "right"?


Everything wouldn't be so bright and there would be noise laws. People would be direct with their thoughts. Social Cues would not exist. There would be no wars and we would not suffer from issues such as oppression and famine as we would live in a socialistic society where we would never want anything and spend the majority of our time doing research and or creating new things such as art, music and innovative concepts. Life would be good. Race/Gender would only be a distinction and nothing more, we would all truly be equal and live happily with each other; working to better the lives of everyone. By bettering my life I would better my neighbors and so forth. The idea of material possession would be a joke as we would enjoy the innovations of others and then build upon these innovations. If we ever encountered Humans from earth, we would work to teach them civility but if they proved dangerous we would strip them of their weapons, place them under marshal law and teach them how act like us.

I am suddenly beginning to draw a distinction between Aspies and Vulcans!



Last edited by mrL on 13 Feb 2013, 11:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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13 Feb 2013, 10:53 pm

Dragoness wrote:
starkid wrote:
qawer wrote:
Love should be unconditional.


No it shouldn't. Why should we love people without regard to what they do or who they are? We would end up loving murderers, dictators, and sociopaths.


You have a very negative opinion about love, apparently ...



How does the idea that love should only be bestowed upon good, decent people suggest a negative attitude towards love?



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13 Feb 2013, 11:02 pm

I apologize - apparently I made a rather big assumption I should not have made. Love is a very powerful, complicated thing, and I think people should not decide who had the right to love who and whatnot.
I agree with you on the fact that certain people might not deserve love, but some of them get it anyway. And I personally, feel uncomfortable telling someone that they should not love someone because they are a bad person. I don't think that would go over very well.



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14 Feb 2013, 6:28 am

starkid wrote:
qawer wrote:
Love should be unconditional.


No it shouldn't. Why should we love people without regard to what they do or who they are? We would end up loving murderers, dictators, and sociopaths.



I am not saying you should love people without regard to what they do or who they are. It is really not what I am pointing at.

The problem with the love in this world is that too much so-called "love" is very conditional. People think about their own needs (as they are supposed to in this world) and if they no longer have a need to be together with a person they once "loved", they will just break off that relationship.

It's the whole superficial ME ME ME culture that is wrong with this world. I know that that is the only way it can be because of the way the world is put together. But that is exactly what I think is wrong about this world. It should be put together in a completely different way. It should not be based on competition and survival, but on true love and good intentions. Showing off your real you should be rewarded, not punished as it is in this world. Not being able to lie and put on a mask is a huge disability in this world. It's simply wrong.


In the end, in this world we only love others because it benefits ourselves. In the end everything is built on egoism/survival. The world should not be that superficial. The only way I can come to terms with it is to not think about it. You simply HAVE to think superficially to enjoy/accept the world we live in. This boils down to thinking about yourself, and only thinking about others if it has some positive impact on yourself.


All these philanthropists donating money to charity are only doing it to show the world how great people they are. It's all ego and me me me and social status, not true altruism. A truly altruistic donation is in the end only given by a mentally ill individual (measured by nature's laws). That is what life and nature teaches you. In my head it ought to be the other way round.



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14 Feb 2013, 10:07 am

qawer wrote:
starkid wrote:
qawer wrote:
Love should be unconditional.


No it shouldn't. Why should we love people without regard to what they do or who they are? We would end up loving murderers, dictators, and sociopaths.



I am not saying you should love people without regard to what they do or who they are. It is really not what I am pointing at.

The problem with the love in this world is that too much so-called "love" is very conditional. People think about their own needs (as they are supposed to in this world) and if they no longer have a need to be together with a person they once "loved", they will just break off that relationship.

It's the whole superficial ME ME ME culture that is wrong with this world. I know that that is the only way it can be because of the way the world is put together. But that is exactly what I think is wrong about this world. It should be put together in a completely different way. It should not be based on competition and survival, but on true love and good intentions. Showing off your real you should be rewarded, not punished as it is in this world. Not being able to lie and put on a mask is a huge disability in this world. It's simply wrong.


In the end, in this world we only love others because it benefits ourselves. In the end everything is built on egoism/survival. The world should not be that superficial. The only way I can come to terms with it is to not think about it. You simply HAVE to think superficially to enjoy/accept the world we live in. This boils down to thinking about yourself, and only thinking about others if it has some positive impact on yourself.


All these philanthropists donating money to charity are only doing it to show the world how great people they are. It's all ego and me me me and social status, not true altruism. A truly altruistic donation is in the end only given by a mentally ill individual (measured by nature's laws). That is what life and nature teaches you. In my head it ought to be the other way round.


Agreed.