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Lyll
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16 Feb 2013, 4:08 am

I'm not particularly a science girl but doesn't a gene mutation create a new breed in the animal world. Any scientists to answer me?
What is causing the mutation? Is it spontaneaous, induced by radiations or chemicals (there are loads of controversies concerning vaccines)?
Why does it affect certain people and not others?

Why won't people accept difference and forget about 'norms'? At the end of the day, every human is different, individual wether physically, psychologically, spiritually and so on.

I'm trying to orientate this thread since it seems to stay focused on the 'we aspies are studied like animals, we just want to be considered as normal' frame of mind...(elephant man syndrome???)
Come on people.



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16 Feb 2013, 5:00 am

Oh for goodness sake! can't you people read!! !!

**Scientists from the University of Cambridge have identified 27 genes that are associated with autistic traits and/or Asperger Syndrome.**

This means
a) the genes themselves are not "different",they are just single nucleotide polymorphisms which means they are a different expression of common genes that can be found in NTs
b) the genes are associated with autism not just frigging Aspergers (a label which BTW has gone the way of the dodo)
and Fnord c) the author's have said different DNA by no means equals disorder, it just means different DNA.

next!.....



DVCal
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16 Feb 2013, 5:23 am

Lyll wrote:
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2012/12/26/scientists-identify-27-genes-associated-with-aspergers-syndrome-what-does-this-mean/

Interesting set of articles


One of the problems which they do not discuss is most of those genes they identify are very common, with some exceeding 50% of the population in some areas. More than 95% of the people with those genes do not have ASD, and many with ASD did not have those genes. The thing was ASD might be found in 1 in 100 in the general population, but 1 in 96in people with these genes.



Lyll
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16 Feb 2013, 5:27 am

Thank you CyberDad and DVcal...at last we are getting somewhere. DVcal,sorry to be thick is that info in the links or have you gotten it from somewhere else?



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16 Feb 2013, 5:37 am

Lyll wrote:
Thank you CyberDad and DVcal...at last we are getting somewhere. DVcal,sorry to be thick is that info in the links or have you gotten it from somewhere else?



Other sources, this story isn't new news.



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16 Feb 2013, 5:54 am

So does that mean I am not human?


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naturalplastic
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16 Feb 2013, 6:42 am

Joe90 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Why Aspies all the time? Why don't they do studies on another group of people?


They HAVE been doing nature vs nurture studies on alcholics, obese people, psychotics, juvenile deliguents, homosexuals, and every other kind of deviant since long before they sequenced the human genome. So I dont know where you get the idea that aspies are being singled out.


It just seems like it. ''Aspies are aliens'', ''Aspies are neanderthal''. ''Aspies are indigo child'' (or whatever it is), and so on. Why can't people just accept that Aspies are also people too, just like our parents? We are not a different breed or a different evolution of race.


It seems that way because you come here to WP which is an aspie site where aspies themselves single out aspergers for discussion- and selectively pull stuff from the wider media about aspergers and autism.

On-say- an obesity site- you would think the whole world revolved around wieght loss ( aspergers would never be mentioned).



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16 Feb 2013, 1:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
**Scientists from the University of Cambridge have identified 27 genes that are associated with autistic traits and/or Asperger Syndrome.**

"Associated with" does not mean "causes" or "is caused by"; it means "correlates to".

Correlation is not causation.



Lyll
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16 Feb 2013, 5:07 pm

@ Fnord: Cyberdad didn't say it did, did he?



The_Walrus
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17 Feb 2013, 9:07 am

Lyll wrote:
I'm not particularly a science girl but doesn't a gene mutation create a new breed in the animal world. Any scientists to answer me?

No.

New species are created by accumulations of mutations over time (there is more to it than that but for simplicity's sake...)

A single point mutation will very rarely prevent successful reproduction between species, and seeing as Aspies frequently produce fertile offspring when they reproduce with NTs...



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17 Feb 2013, 11:19 am

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
**Scientists from the University of Cambridge have identified 27 genes that are associated with autistic traits and/or Asperger Syndrome.**

"Associated with" does not mean "causes" or "is caused by"; it means "correlates to".

Correlation is not causation.


The correlation in the study was low, you could not say with any reasonable certainty that someone with those genes had ASD, nor could you say with any certainty that someone without those genes didn't have ASD.

One "gene" or SNP for example 38% of ASD people had it while only 28% of the general population had it. This SNP was one of the most significant. While yes that would indicate some significant association, one can't use it to determine if said people have ASD. It could indicate those with these SNP have elevated chance of developing ASD, but that chance is still low.



naturalplastic
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17 Feb 2013, 2:01 pm

DVCal wrote:
Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
**Scientists from the University of Cambridge have identified 27 genes that are associated with autistic traits and/or Asperger Syndrome.**

"Associated with" does not mean "causes" or "is caused by"; it means "correlates to".

Correlation is not causation.


The correlation in the study was low, you could not say with any reasonable certainty that someone with those genes had ASD, nor could you say with any certainty that someone without those genes didn't have ASD.

One "gene" or SNP for example 38% of ASD people had it while only 28% of the general population had it. This SNP was one of the most significant. While yes that would indicate some significant association, one can't use it to determine if said people have ASD. It could indicate those with these SNP have elevated chance of developing ASD, but that chance is still low.


I think that this about sums it up.
It might mean something, or it might not.
But even if it means something- we are still a long way off from saying what exactly it means.



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18 Feb 2013, 12:02 am

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
**Scientists from the University of Cambridge have identified 27 genes that are associated with autistic traits and/or Asperger Syndrome.**

"Associated with" does not mean "causes" or "is caused by"; it means "correlates to".

Correlation is not causation.

refer to my point c) Fnord



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18 Feb 2013, 12:04 am

DVCal wrote:
Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
**Scientists from the University of Cambridge have identified 27 genes that are associated with autistic traits and/or Asperger Syndrome.**

"Associated with" does not mean "causes" or "is caused by"; it means "correlates to".

Correlation is not causation.


The correlation in the study was low, you could not say with any reasonable certainty that someone with those genes had ASD, nor could you say with any certainty that someone without those genes didn't have ASD.

One "gene" or SNP for example 38% of ASD people had it while only 28% of the general population had it. This SNP was one of the most significant. While yes that would indicate some significant association, one can't use it to determine if said people have ASD. It could indicate those with these SNP have elevated chance of developing ASD, but that chance is still low.


This is true, but neither myself nor the authors mentioned the word correlation. I think the word used was "association"...



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18 Feb 2013, 12:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
This is true, but neither myself nor the authors mentioned the word correlation. I think the word used was "association"...

The two words are synonymous.

Associations are not causally related, either - they're coincidental proximations of incidental data; only this, and nothing more.



DVCal
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18 Feb 2013, 12:24 am

The authors never state that aspies have different genes, all of the SNP associated with ASD were also the most common or found in very high frequency among the general population, some were were found in over 80% of the general population. They were just slightly more common among people with ASD.