Profile Gender Options

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How does that follow?

Personally, I think more people are likely to want to express a major aspect of identity than what kind of meat they have between their legs.

This thread should be moved to either the Adult or the LGBT forum.

I think that those who are more concerned about sexuality than genetics are just looking to turn WP into a Lonely Hearts Club for their particular "gender". If it were just a matter of genetics for purposes of member identification, then "Male" and "Female" are sufficient; but if it is more important to raise a flag to show a preference of "meat", then WP will turn into a "Meat Market", and deviate from its intended purpose.

That is also why I think that both "Sex" and "Gender" should be eliminated as choice categories.

But if "gender" is truly an expression of one's sexuality, then in addition to Straight, Gay, Lesbian, Bi, and Trans, there should be categories for Asexual, Bestial, Cosplay, Furrie, Dom, Sub, Bondage, Voyeur, Fist, Scat, Incest, Choke, and Exhibition, since these are also expressions of sexuality (although not mine).

And keep Male and Female as choices too - if we're going to be descriptive here, then let's make it all or nothing.

It has been pointed out that gender and sex are two different things; and since there is already a dropdown for "Sex", then I suggest that we just keep it and put "Gender" (and all of its means of expression) in a separate dropdown.

That should only take a few dozen or so options...

Gender and sexual orientation are different.

It's a shame there are two threads like this, which divides the attention put to any one of them, but in the other one the idea of "masculine, femenine, other and undisclosed" was put forward, without any counterarguments so far.

Although there is something to the fact that a sex or a gemder entry is not strictly necessary, the same can be said about something like age (also, if people can choose whether or not show age, why not the same with gender?)

Also, why an all of nothing? There is also the option of a middle ground, you know.

Middle ground? Where?

Right now, the whining is about how some people feel discriminated against for being unable to make a statement for their their gender in the same way that everybody is allowed to state their sex, even though there is a 256-character space allocated in each member's profile to make practically any kind of statement they want, including a statement of their gender.

So, in the interest of avoiding any further "discriminatory" practices, listing ALL possible gender options or eliminating the "Sex" category are the only fair ways to go.

I like your idea of being allowed to opt out of displaying age, gender, sex, location, or any other detail that might allow a stalker to track you down.

Shouldn't be adult. It's not pornographic, and as it turns out, you can be underage, not straight, and/or trans as well.



That's a really weird thing to assume. In my experience, people are more interested in this kind of option for the sake of being visibly acknowledged, and often so that it can be clear which pronouns are appropriate.

I am arguing in favor of a gender dropdown with more than two options, and I am not interested in looking for a relationship or whatever it is you are implying about wanting more gender options.



Lesbian, bisexual, gay, trans, straight, asexual, bestial, cosplay, furrie, dom, sub, bondage, voyeur, fist, scat, incest, choke, and exhibition are not genders and thus not any part of anyone's suggestions. You're confusing multiple concepts here: gender (men, women, agender, etc.), orientation (asexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual), fetishes (furrie, dom, sub, bondage, voyeur, fist, scat, choke). I have to admit, it is one of the most comprehensive (and thus by definition, intellectually dishonest) uses of "slippery slope" fallacy that I have ever seen, but as such it invalidates itself as an argument because it is made up of virtually nothing but inaccuracies, and seems to be more about your personal feelings about sexual orientation, gender, and fetishes than about any arguments or posts you're responding to.

One big reason just to have male and female is that I have found online that many people default to assuming "male" and not having options simply promotes the assumption that everyone is male until proven otherwise, and forcing women and members of other genders to state that they are not male, but never really forcing men to have to declare anything.

You're misusing the concept that "sex and gender are different things." That statement is intended to illustrate that one's gender does not necessarily match their assigned at birth sex. The point is not to enforce a kind of biological essentialism where it is necessary to define everyone whose gender does not match their assigned at birth sex by their assigned at birth sex.



No one is whining.

You seem to be expressing a rather significant amount of negativity toward the suggestion and keep injecting statements into the discussion to make it seem like the suggestion is something it very much is not. As long as "male" and "female" are the only options, this suggestion is going to continue to come up, unless someone (like Alex) provides a definitive answer either way. To my knowledge, this has not happened.



It is impossible to list all possible gender options. It is possible to provide a list that doesn't lock people into only two options, however.



This I agree with.

I opted out of displaying age. I would opt out of displaying sex if I could. I would select a different option if such were available.

The middle ground would be "other" instead of listing every possibility. When talking about gender, besides people identifying as masculine or feminine there is people who identify with both, or believe they are a different gender altogether, or believe that gender is a social construct irrelevant to their lives, plus more things I don't know about.

Or to give an explanation that you might like more: biological, and more specifically, genotypical sex, is not restricted to XX and XY either. Ther is also X, XYY, XXY, and others, which have also consequences in the fenotype, to the point it might be hard to classify a person as a man or as a woman. So even when talking about chromosomes, things aren't that clear cut either

EDIT: forgot the conclusion. "other" is the middle ground because it allows people who don't identify as male or female to choose something else, without having to go into each and every possibility. Barring that, as we all already agree to, an "undisclosed" option would still be really useful.

Last edited by Shatbat on 15 Mar 2013, 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I also doubt most people have had their chromosomes checked.

Look at the poll, please. It's not "some people feeling discriminated against"; it's something that the majority of us think is a good idea. It's just annoying when you have to say one or the other, when many people are not.

You seem to think that we've got to have every possible option if we're going to be fair to everybody and that therefore we shouldn't have any; but that's a fallacy along the lines of "If we can't solve a problem perfectly then it's no use trying to solve it at all". We don't have to have a drop-down with a hundred options. We could have a "fill in the blank" section, like for Location, or we could use male/female/other/prefer-not-to-say, which is enough to acknowledge that genders other than male and female exist, and that some people don't want their gender on their profile.

There is a place on your Profile page for just that purpose. it's called "Extra Info", and each member is allowed 255 characters to say whatever they want about themselves. With that much space already available to everybody, a separate pulldown for Gender would be both redundant and superfluous.

Mine says, "Officially diagnosed at age 52, after earning an MSEE degree, getting married, fathering children, serving in the military, and holding down a job. I have investigated many claims of paranormal ability and activity, and found them all to be bogus."

Do you see how much information can be put into that space? What does YOUR Extra Info say? If putting your gender on display is that important, then just start the Extra Info entry with the word "Gender:", and you still have 248 characters left to describe whatever you want!

Better yet, just put the "Gender:" description in your signature line for everybody to see in every post you make.

There; isn't that simple?

That's not a very substantial argument against adding options.

How would adding the options people described in this thread (and I mean what posters in this thread have actually described, not your attempts to reductio ad absurdem the suggestion) really impact you?

I'll assume that this is directed at me. Please let me know if I've jumped to the wrong conclusion.

First, asserting only the two genetic gender identities discriminates against no one, since we all have at least one "Y" chromosome or none at all. This is the way it is right now, so there is no demonstrable need to change.

Second, leaving out even one alternate gender identity could be discriminatory, so including all possible gender identities is only fair, and fair to everyone. However, reaching a consensus agreement on what a valid alternate gender identity should be is unlikely, so a change is equally unlikely.

Finally, only Alex can change the features of this website, and he has never seemed inclined to do so. This makes the prospects of change especially unlikely.

Impact me? Hardly at all. Should I not be interested in the topic? Am I prohibited from expressing my opinions? Must every post in this thread be in complete agreement with the first post?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... eness.html

The first result from googling "y chromosome female". Would you classify someone born with ovaries and cervix and everything else a man because of her chromosomes?




I acknowledge that possibility, and that's why the "other" option is suggested and the middle ground. It would encompass all alternate gender identities outside male and female, without having to list all of them. "Male" and "female" would get the special treatment of being explicitly listed, but that's because an overwhelming majority of people classify themselves as belonging for these two. Sure, some people may still complain and say that their own should be listed as well, but as Callista said, "If we can't solve a problem perfectly then it's no use trying to solve it at all" is a fallacy.



Nothing is lost trying.



I'm with you in this one. I'm perfectly fine with the "male" option myself, so I guess it wouldn't affect me either. It's only that this topic also interests me, and well, I can empathize with those who are feeling left out.

"Male / Female / Other" ... no one is being hurt by the status quo, and adding more options won't hurt anyone, either.

So why do we even discuss it?

Because we can, that's why; and discussion inevitably invites dissent.

It could be argued that some people feel hurt by the current status quo of no "other" option.

Nothing wrong with dissent, really, nobody has insulted nobody so far