It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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Keni
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04 Apr 2013, 8:03 pm

uwmonkdm wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I had a long conversation with an ex


I found your problem.


Yep, that'll do it!

Tyrion, I wouldn't be hasty in removing any diagnosis, to get actual help you probably need as many "warning flags" as you can get.
Maybe find one of your symptoms that could have a physical cause, get referred and re-referred between physical and mental health professionals until you find one with a bit of a clue?



Tyri0n
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04 Apr 2013, 10:29 pm

Keni wrote:
uwmonkdm wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I had a long conversation with an ex


I found your problem.


Yep, that'll do it!

Tyrion, I wouldn't be hasty in removing any diagnosis, to get actual help you probably need as many "warning flags" as you can get.
Maybe find one of your symptoms that could have a physical cause, get referred and re-referred between physical and mental health professionals until you find one with a bit of a clue?


Well, if having Asperger's is a barrier to getting diagnosed with what I really have (BPD), in order to get the help I really need (Asperger's "social skills" groups didn't cut it), then I need to remove it. Otherwise, since a lot of the problems me, my mother, and my ex have noted are "social" problems, they will just chalk it up to Asperger's.

Basically, I could be one of the few who meets 9/9 of the DSM criteria for BPD, and I could be hospitalized for suicide attempts, paint my neighbor's car without permission, and overdose on drugs, and I think some people would still chalk it all up to Asperger's.

It's hard because I am:

1. A male.

2. Can be soft-spoken when I'm nervous (I'm always nervous in a doctor's office)

3. Looks and sounds rational, smart, articulate, and even-tempered.

The problem is, once you get to know me, you will see that there is another part of me that is the complete opposite of all these things.



Last edited by Tyri0n on 04 Apr 2013, 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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04 Apr 2013, 10:35 pm

Tyri0n wrote:

Well, if having Asperger's is a barrier to getting diagnosed with what I really have (BPD), then I need to remove it. Otherwise, since a lot of the problems me, my mother, and my ex have noted are "social" problems, they will just chalk it up to Asperger's.

Basically, I could be one of the few who meets 9/9 of the DSM criteria for BPD, and I could be hospitalized for suicide attempts, paint my neighbor's car without permission, and overdose on drugs, and I think some people would still chalk it all up to Asperger's.


To be honest, there's really no reason you couldn't be diagnosed with both, but some professionals are weird.

See if you can find someone who deals with BPD as a thing in your area, and see if you can see them. You're more likely to get help that way, and I have found professionals tend to be open to reevaluating past diagnoses from others (if not their own).



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04 Apr 2013, 11:14 pm

I am curious do you have any sensory issues, fixed interest, or repetitive behaviors.



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04 Apr 2013, 11:37 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
I wonder if there is anyone here who has been diagnosed with Asperger's but later found out it was a misdiagnosis--and they actually had something else.


I don't really see BPD and AS being all that mutually exclusive.

Did you go in to get tested for AS specifically?

Or did you go in to get tested for unspecified reasons i.e. "I know something is wrong and I want you to to tell me what it is".

I'm so far in favor of the latter. To get tested only based on symptoms rather than what one thinks they have.

I think an important thing missing in self diagnosis tests like the Aspie Quiz is that it fails to ask things like "Did you ever suffer a childhood trauma?" "Were you psychically or sexually abused as a child?" "Were you neglected or abandoned as a child" etc.

Anyways, I don't see WP as an AS only club. Just as long as someone isn't here to troll, then I don't see why they should meet any particular criteria to post here.
If people on WP don't like what you post, they'll report you and you'll get banned I suppose. If you haven't been banned, then don't self dx yourself as unwelcome :)



Last edited by briankelley on 04 Apr 2013, 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tyri0n
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04 Apr 2013, 11:41 pm

DVCal wrote:
I am curious do you have any sensory issues, fixed interest, or repetitive behaviors.


Sensory issues - yes

fixed interests - yes

repetitive behaviors - no

I have NLD though. NLD can cause the first two but typically doesn't cause the last one.



DVCal
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04 Apr 2013, 11:54 pm

Do you not meet the Social communications portion for the DSM IV or V for Autism?



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05 Apr 2013, 12:01 am

DVCal wrote:
Do you not meet the Social communications portion for the DSM IV or V for Autism?


I don't know. I do seem to meet enough of the criteria. But aspies I meet are all completely different, and there's like no resources focused on Asperger's geared towards helping social problems of the type that I have. So something just doesn't quite fit. I don't really have special talents aside from the high verbal/high-abstract reasoning skills typically associate with NLD. In fact, I am probably impaired or below average in just about every other area besides these.

But....

(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression (sometimes but sometimes not), body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity (trouble relating to people/caring about what they have to say, empathy issues, but this is variable)

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

[false] (no initial delay but regression at an older age after a traumatic event)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

[false]



Last edited by Tyri0n on 05 Apr 2013, 12:23 am, edited 4 times in total.

briankelley
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05 Apr 2013, 12:05 am

xMistrox wrote:
Amid all the anti-self diagnose threads, it is interesting to see somewhat of the opposite (personally, I just see those as the human trait of "guilty until proven innocent"). From Wikipedia (bad source, I know), there are 10 personality disorders that sound similar to some ASD symptoms/issues on the surface, but are quite different in detail:


I remember going through many of those based on my symptoms.
But there was criteria I didn't meet.
I can't recall how I went about it, but I'd go over a list of symptoms and or causes.

Usually It was;
Yes
Yes
Maybe
No
No
Hell no.

When I finally got to Aspergers it was
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Hell yes.

Then I got hold of my pediatric and school records.



xMistrox
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05 Apr 2013, 7:30 am

briankelley wrote:
I remember going through many of those based on my symptoms.
But there was criteria I didn't meet.


Yeah, I ran through them a bit yesterday and it doesn't really fit like AS does. It doesn't explain sensory or motor issues either.

I just looked up NLD as well, it sounds similar to both AS and my problems with math. Wikipedia also states this:

"Ongoing debate surrounds the relationship between Asperger syndrome and NLD, as research on the condition is ongoing and procedures can differ from AS research.[2] Although most people with Asperger syndrome (AS) fit the criteria for NLD, a diagnosis of AS is often preferred.[2] In this instance, some researchers assert that an AS diagnosis is more clinically useful than an NLD diagnosis, and argue that NLD would be an example of excessive diagnostic splitting. ( source: http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/7/4/310.full )"

A psychologist would be more accurate in deciding what you have or do not have, and which can or can't normally exist together in a certain diagnosis. So far however, it sounds like AS is actually pretty accurate for you Tyri0n. I would still explore seeking help for issues related to other disorders if you find similarities to them in yourself.


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RAADS-R: 189 total
Diagnosed 9/2013


Tyri0n
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05 Apr 2013, 7:49 am

xMistrox wrote:
briankelley wrote:
I remember going through many of those based on my symptoms.
But there was criteria I didn't meet.


Yeah, I ran through them a bit yesterday and it doesn't really fit like AS does. It doesn't explain sensory or motor issues either.

I just looked up NLD as well, it sounds similar to both AS and my problems with math. Wikipedia also states this:

"Ongoing debate surrounds the relationship between Asperger syndrome and NLD, as research on the condition is ongoing and procedures can differ from AS research.[2] Although most people with Asperger syndrome (AS) fit the criteria for NLD, a diagnosis of AS is often preferred.[2] In this instance, some researchers assert that an AS diagnosis is more clinically useful than an NLD diagnosis, and argue that NLD would be an example of excessive diagnostic splitting. ( source: http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/7/4/310.full )"

A psychologist would be more accurate in deciding what you have or do not have, and which can or can't normally exist together in a certain diagnosis. So far however, it sounds like AS is actually pretty accurate for you Tyri0n. I would still explore seeking help for issues related to other disorders if you find similarities to them in yourself.


It may be accurate, but as far as what is causing the main problems in my life, it's not the Asperger's. Where does the idea come from that Asperger's and Borderline are mutually exclusive, especially if the personality disorder is causing a lot more harm to a person?



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05 Apr 2013, 7:52 am

^^^
Yeah, the thing is if you have NLD and have obsessions and sensory issues than you probably could be helped by some AS interventions. I mean it's not like the AS diagnosis is way off. If you want to work more on emotional issues and other things you listed , maybe just ask your psych to focus on them. I think you should bring him that list of things you want to change/work on. If you were abused as a child you'll obviously have issues apart from AS even if you do have it and need a different kind of help with those issues. I hope your psych realizes that.

I have NVLD too and it's hard to know what's AS and what's NLD because NLD can cause that pesky gauche body language or the prosody problems in your case too, and the sensory and motor problems. They have overlapping symptoms. Similar interventions should work for the two of them.



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05 Apr 2013, 8:01 am

daydreamer84 wrote:
^^^
Yeah, the thing is if you have NLD and have obsessions and sensory issues than you probably could be helped by some AS interventions. I mean it's not like the AS diagnosis is way off. If you want to work more on emotional issues and other things you listed , maybe just ask your psych to focus on them. I think you should bring him that list of things you want to change/work on. If you were abused as a child you'll obviously have issues apart from AS even if you do have it and need a different kind of help with those issues. I hope your psych realizes that.

I have NVLD too and it's hard to know what's AS and what's NLD because NLD can cause that pesky gauche body language or the prosody problems in your case too, and the sensory and motor problems. They have overlapping symptoms. Similar interventions should work for the two of them.


Well, where does this idea come from that co-morbids should be ignored? Doesn't anyone recognize that it's possible to have Asperger's but have it cause few problems (minor prosody issues being one of the few) vs. other co-morbids?



Last edited by Tyri0n on 05 Apr 2013, 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chloe33
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05 Apr 2013, 8:02 am

Tyri0n wrote:
I wonder if there is anyone here who has been diagnosed with Asperger's but later found out it was a misdiagnosis--and they actually had something else.

I had a long conversation with an ex who basically convinced me that I meet the criteria for a personality disorder. Actually, it made perfect sense once she explained it to me, and I was only dimly aware of some of the behaviors. I had suspected it before but then dismissed it. Now, I realize I was correct. Even my autistic behaviors in childhood now make sense as a response to a traumatic incident. Forget PDD.

Unfortunately, my psychologist is of the opinion that, once someone has ASD, then personality disorder diagnoses aren't really relevant since every interpersonal problem can be explained in terms of ASD --- lol! My concerns were just dismissed. It's hard to get anyone to believe me who doesn't know me. But those close to me, including two of my exes and, this morning, my mother, all agree with me. I just don't fit the "type" that professionals are looking for, partly due to conscious masking and partly due to unconscious masking due to NLD.

I have decided that I may not even have a co-morbid but that Asperger's itself may well be an incorrect diagnosis. I have NLD, sure; that could explain some outward behaviors like prosody issues, etc. However, one of the reasons I've been obsessed with Asperger's and this site is because of pervasive doubting my autism diagnosis.

Why does it matter? I can't get the help I need with an AS diagnosis. I've tried, which leads me to be told that, if I have it at all, it's very mild. None of the so-called "social skills training" addresses my specific issues. But I definitely have something that isn't mild. Since many of you would probably love to be rid of me, the fake aspie who keys cars and gives bad advice in the Love & Dating section, what should I do to get re-diagnosed, so I can actually address my real issues and quit wasting so much time on this website? :lol:



I don't care what they diagnosis', i don't care if you are NT or not.
All i know is you are a good person in my book and i like having you on this site :D
We get labeled all the time, yet they are just labels.
If we peal them off the cans then we are all blank again - ooh i made a metaphor



daydreamer84
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05 Apr 2013, 8:08 am

Tyri0n wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
^^^
Yeah, the thing is if you have NLD and have obsessions and sensory issues than you probably could be helped by some AS interventions. I mean it's not like the AS diagnosis is way off. If you want to work more on emotional issues and other things you listed , maybe just ask your psych to focus on them. I think you should bring him that list of things you want to change/work on. If you were abused as a child you'll obviously have issues apart from AS even if you do have it and need a different kind of help with those issues. I hope your psych realizes that.

I have NVLD too and it's hard to know what's AS and what's NLD because NLD can cause that pesky gauche body language or the prosody problems in your case too, and the sensory and motor problems. They have overlapping symptoms. Similar interventions should work for the two of them.


Well, where does this idea come from that co-morbids should be ignored? Doesn't anyone recognize that it's possible to have Asperger's but have it cause few problems (minor prosody issues being one of the few) vs. other co-morbids?


Well ,you can be diagnosed with co-morbids like anxiety and depression. Personality disorders are supposed to be mutually exclusive because I guess they think AS can account for personality , er, differences, because it's so all encompassing. According to the DSM, ADHD is also mutually exclusive but there are some people who just clearly have both. The theory is that ASD trumps ADHD and personality disorders because it's so pervasive so it should account for inattention and distractibility for instance. The DSM has a few wrinkles to iron out to say the least.

Also psychiatry is based on behavioral symptoms so it's subjective to a certain extent.Even if the DSM changes, these diagnostic labels aren't going to be perfect. It's not based on exact science like taking a blood test that can determine if you have X disease.



Last edited by daydreamer84 on 05 Apr 2013, 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tyri0n
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05 Apr 2013, 8:10 am

Chloe33 wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I wonder if there is anyone here who has been diagnosed with Asperger's but later found out it was a misdiagnosis--and they actually had something else.

I had a long conversation with an ex who basically convinced me that I meet the criteria for a personality disorder. Actually, it made perfect sense once she explained it to me, and I was only dimly aware of some of the behaviors. I had suspected it before but then dismissed it. Now, I realize I was correct. Even my autistic behaviors in childhood now make sense as a response to a traumatic incident. Forget PDD.

Unfortunately, my psychologist is of the opinion that, once someone has ASD, then personality disorder diagnoses aren't really relevant since every interpersonal problem can be explained in terms of ASD --- lol! My concerns were just dismissed. It's hard to get anyone to believe me who doesn't know me. But those close to me, including two of my exes and, this morning, my mother, all agree with me. I just don't fit the "type" that professionals are looking for, partly due to conscious masking and partly due to unconscious masking due to NLD.

I have decided that I may not even have a co-morbid but that Asperger's itself may well be an incorrect diagnosis. I have NLD, sure; that could explain some outward behaviors like prosody issues, etc. However, one of the reasons I've been obsessed with Asperger's and this site is because of pervasive doubting my autism diagnosis.

Why does it matter? I can't get the help I need with an AS diagnosis. I've tried, which leads me to be told that, if I have it at all, it's very mild. None of the so-called "social skills training" addresses my specific issues. But I definitely have something that isn't mild. Since many of you would probably love to be rid of me, the fake aspie who keys cars and gives bad advice in the Love & Dating section, what should I do to get re-diagnosed, so I can actually address my real issues and quit wasting so much time on this website? :lol:



I don't care what they diagnosis', i don't care if you are NT or not.
All i know is you are a good person in my book and i like having you on this site :D
We get labeled all the time, yet they are just labels.
If we peal them off the cans then we are all blank again - ooh i made a metaphor


Aww, thanks. :)

Unfortunately, based on the way I treated my ex, I am actually a horrible person. :(