Performance doesn't matter, only social capital

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Tyri0n
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21 Apr 2013, 2:00 pm

Moondust wrote:
I think NTs don't want to teach us these things because they're a specific sort of taboo. The sort that no one wants to be quoted having said those things. Once a woman told me that she was desperate because her son had been diagnosed with AS. The doctor told her his best chance was for her to open his eyes to the hidden motivations and games of people. She said this sort of thing is so hard to talk about that even though she's desperate, she can't bring herself to do it.


I love talking about this. I guess that makes me not NT.

As for the original problem, yes, it sucks. This is why I have really only worked for the public sector, not the private sector, except for my job in China that I held for nearly two years. I don't really think there is a good way for aspies to function in most private sector jobs unless it's an aspie-friendly environment, like engineering or tax accounting. Too much politics. I always dread being put in this or a similar situation, but I have successfully avoided it for the most part in 8 years of living independently simply by avoiding jobs and situations where it could be an issue.

Schedule A disability preference for the feds and similar things in most states -- it's something to check out if you have special skills. Capitalism/the private sector is our worst enemy. I will be working for one of the federal agencies in Washington, D.C. when I graduate.



Homo_Economicus
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21 Apr 2013, 2:37 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
As for the original problem, yes, it sucks. This is why I have really only worked for the public sector, not the private sector, except for my job in China that I held for nearly two years. I don't really think there is a good way for aspies to function in most private sector jobs unless it's an aspie-friendly environment, like engineering or tax accounting. Too much politics. I always dread being put in this or a similar situation, but I have successfully avoided it for the most part in 8 years of living independently simply by avoiding jobs and situations where it could be an issue.

Schedule A disability preference for the feds and similar things in most states -- it's something to check out if you have special skills. Capitalism/the private sector is our worst enemy. I will be working for one of the federal agencies in Washington, D.C. when I graduate.


I have also thought sometimes that aspies and private sector don't mix too well. Though I do not wish to exclude that there be some small companies with an aspie-friendly environment. I tend to look for jobs where people are judged on their performance and not on how well they get along with their colleagues.



AgentPalpatine
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21 Apr 2013, 3:10 pm

Homo_Economicus wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
As for the original problem, yes, it sucks. This is why I have really only worked for the public sector, not the private sector, except for my job in China that I held for nearly two years. I don't really think there is a good way for aspies to function in most private sector jobs unless it's an aspie-friendly environment, like engineering or tax accounting. Too much politics. I always dread being put in this or a similar situation, but I have successfully avoided it for the most part in 8 years of living independently simply by avoiding jobs and situations where it could be an issue.

Schedule A disability preference for the feds and similar things in most states -- it's something to check out if you have special skills. Capitalism/the private sector is our worst enemy. I will be working for one of the federal agencies in Washington, D.C. when I graduate.


I have also thought sometimes that aspies and private sector don't mix too well. Though I do not wish to exclude that there be some small companies with an aspie-friendly environment. I tend to look for jobs where people are judged on their performance and not on how well they get along with their colleagues.


Hmmmmm, perhaps that's a question for another thread. I've been wondering along those lines for sometime.


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21 Apr 2013, 3:52 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
True dat, to all of the above.
It doesn’t matter what you do as long as you look good doing it.
AgentPalpatine wrote:
Yep. Swimming in those waters (office politics) is dangerous, but so is not swimming in those waters.
If only I could call a lifeguard.

I’ve tried, by the way, to get a kind of lifeguard for the job.
I actually got into a program to get a job coach. I wanted someone with credibility to help me to educate a potential boss. My issues include office politics, non-verbal communication and such.
First off, this job coach reassured me that she had attended a program about Asperger’s and therefore know all about it. (Need I mention that she didn’t?)
After wasting an absurd amount of time with the usual crap of trying to teach me to write a resume or tie my shoes… (Gimme a break. I don't need any kind of training at all. I need a specific form of help,) I finally dragged her to the brink of a glimmer of my real issues – office politics – she paused, blinked, and with a wave of her hand said, “oh, I can’t help you with that – so let’s talk about your resume.”
I went through TWO of these jackasses before giving up on the program.


Ugh, that sucks.
Having a job coach to do what you described would be a huge help. What happened seems typical of the "help" offered to people on the spectrum, though.



Tyri0n
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21 Apr 2013, 4:00 pm

Homo_Economicus wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
As for the original problem, yes, it sucks. This is why I have really only worked for the public sector, not the private sector, except for my job in China that I held for nearly two years. I don't really think there is a good way for aspies to function in most private sector jobs unless it's an aspie-friendly environment, like engineering or tax accounting. Too much politics. I always dread being put in this or a similar situation, but I have successfully avoided it for the most part in 8 years of living independently simply by avoiding jobs and situations where it could be an issue.

Schedule A disability preference for the feds and similar things in most states -- it's something to check out if you have special skills. Capitalism/the private sector is our worst enemy. I will be working for one of the federal agencies in Washington, D.C. when I graduate.


I have also thought sometimes that aspies and private sector don't mix too well. Though I do not wish to exclude that there be some small companies with an aspie-friendly environment. I tend to look for jobs where people are judged on their performance and not on how well they get along with their colleagues.


Yeah, or where your colleagues have aspie traits also. I bet some software engineering companies and tax accounting firms are like this, even some of the large ones. In fact, when I did a call-back interview in the NYC office of PricewaterhouseCoopers' International Tax department, it seemed to be such a place.

My "guide" for the day was quite clearly an aspie and had lasted there for 5 years and moved up into management. But unless you are tech savvy or accounting savvy, I'd say most private sector jobs other than academia are a bad choice for anyone not only not neurotypical but not extroverted also.

You're never going to be judged solely on your individual performance since part of your performance is your ability to work well with other people. So the goal is not to find a company that judges solely on performance, but a company/job that either employs many people just like you (like PricewaterhouseCoopers) or else is very disability-friendly and where it's difficult to fire people, like the government. I have no trouble working well with people who are similar to me; I just always clash with extroverted type A's who are immersed in NT drinking culture, so I try to avoid situations where I have to interact with such people.

Also, in government, it's guaranteed that most of my co-workers will either be older married men or minority female. There are a few ugly or socially awkward young white males, but I usually get along fine with them, as well as with my minority female and older married white male co-workers. It seems that most Type A young white males go for the private sector, which is good for me, because it allows me to avoid them.

Occasionally, there are hot white NT women (sorority types) in these types of working environments, which could be a problem for some aspie men and women, but they usually just treat me like another girl--sometimes, comically, even trying to engage in "girl talk" with me-- so it isn't a big issue, just occasionally cute and mostly annoying. I haven't really had interpersonal problems in the employment context even though I'm probably worse than most aspies when it comes to getting along with people from an objective standpoint.

Be smart. Consider the interpersonal landscape before you choose a job or a career, and even an unpleasant person like me who can't maintain real relationships of any sort will typically not have problems.



AgentPalpatine
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21 Apr 2013, 4:18 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Yeah, or where your colleagues have aspie traits also. I bet some software engineering companies and tax accounting firms are like this, even some of the large ones. In fact, when I did a call-back interview in the NYC office of <snip>, it seemed to be such a place.

My "guide" for the day was quite clearly an aspie and had lasted there for 5 years and moved up into management. But unless you are tech savvy or accounting savvy, I'd say most private sector jobs other than academia are a bad choice for anyone not only not neurotypical but not extroverted also.

You're never going to be judged solely on your individual performance since part of your performance is your ability to work well with other people. So the goal is not to find a company that judges solely on performance, but a company/job that either employs many people just like you (like <snip>) or else is very disability-friendly and where it's difficult to fire people, like the government. I have no trouble working well with people who are similar to me; I just always clash with extroverted type A's who are immersed in NT drinking culture, so I try to avoid situations where I have to interact with such people.

Also, in government, it's guaranteed that most of my co-workers will either be older married men or minority female. There are a few ugly or socially awkward young white males, but I usually get along fine with them, as well as with my minority female and older married white male co-workers. It seems that most Type A young white males go for the private sector, which is good for me, because it allows me to avoid them.

Occasionally, there are hot white NT women (sorority types) in these types of working environments, which could be a problem for some aspie men and women, but they usually just treat me like another girl--sometimes, comically, even trying to engage in "girl talk" with me-- so it isn't a big issue, just occasionally cute and mostly annoying. I haven't really had interpersonal problems in the employment context even though I'm probably worse than most aspies when it comes to getting along with people from an objective standpoint.

Be smart. Consider the interpersonal landscape before you choose a job or a career, and even an unpleasant person like me who can't maintain real relationships of any sort will typically not have problems.


Does anyone think that Aspies should turn their attention towards creating Aspie-friendly businesses?


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Our first challenge is to create an entire economic infrastructure, from top to bottom, out of whole cloth.
-CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis Games)


Last edited by AgentPalpatine on 21 Apr 2013, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tyri0n
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21 Apr 2013, 4:41 pm

AgentPalpatine wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Yeah, or where your colleagues have aspie traits also. I bet some software engineering companies and tax accounting firms are like this, even some of the large ones. In fact, when I did a call-back interview in the NYC office of PricewaterhouseCoopers' International Tax department, it seemed to be such a place.

My "guide" for the day was quite clearly an aspie and had lasted there for 5 years and moved up into management. But unless you are tech savvy or accounting savvy, I'd say most private sector jobs other than academia are a bad choice for anyone not only not neurotypical but not extroverted also.

You're never going to be judged solely on your individual performance since part of your performance is your ability to work well with other people. So the goal is not to find a company that judges solely on performance, but a company/job that either employs many people just like you (like PricewaterhouseCoopers) or else is very disability-friendly and where it's difficult to fire people, like the government. I have no trouble working well with people who are similar to me; I just always clash with extroverted type A's who are immersed in NT drinking culture, so I try to avoid situations where I have to interact with such people.

Also, in government, it's guaranteed that most of my co-workers will either be older married men or minority female. There are a few ugly or socially awkward young white males, but I usually get along fine with them, as well as with my minority female and older married white male co-workers. It seems that most Type A young white males go for the private sector, which is good for me, because it allows me to avoid them.

Occasionally, there are hot white NT women (sorority types) in these types of working environments, which could be a problem for some aspie men and women, but they usually just treat me like another girl--sometimes, comically, even trying to engage in "girl talk" with me-- so it isn't a big issue, just occasionally cute and mostly annoying. I haven't really had interpersonal problems in the employment context even though I'm probably worse than most aspies when it comes to getting along with people from an objective standpoint.

Be smart. Consider the interpersonal landscape before you choose a job or a career, and even an unpleasant person like me who can't maintain real relationships of any sort will typically not have problems.


Does anyone think that Aspies should turn their attention towards creating Aspie-friendly businesses?


Yes, I think many already exist, though. The problem is, it takes a lot of experience to figure out how the world works. We should be advised on how the world works in areas like this from a younger age.

Why should one have to do an internet search to find out that PricewaterhouseCoopers' International Tax Department is aspie friendly (or at least full of autistics) on some random message board from someone who just did a full-day interview there? There should be a website that actually lists, catalogues, and describes places like this.



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21 Apr 2013, 4:47 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Yes, I think many already exist, though. The problem is, it takes a lot of experience to figure out how the world works. We should be advised on how the world works in areas like this from a younger age.

Why should one have to do an internet search to find out that <snip>is aspie friendly (or at least full of autistics) on some random message board from someone who just did a full-day interview there? There should be a website that actually lists, catalogues, and describes places like this.


I question how many organizations would be willing to be listed in such a guide. I can't imagine the name redacted above to be willing for such a thing.

And even if one of these groups is Aspie-friendly 2 years ago, what about today or tommorow? People fall out of power all of the time, and it often only takes one comparatively junior manager to reject a canidate at many organizations.

I agree with you on the advice portion, I really do. I would like to see organizations that are set up from the get-go (or close to it) as Aspie-friendly.


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Our first challenge is to create an entire economic infrastructure, from top to bottom, out of whole cloth.
-CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis Games)


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22 Apr 2013, 4:59 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Schedule A disability preference
What is that? I've heard in general about the disability act. Do you have a good link that explains schedule A in simple terms?



Tyri0n
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22 Apr 2013, 5:12 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Schedule A disability preference
What is that? I've heard in general about the disability act. Do you have a good link that explains schedule A in simple terms?


Quote:
So what is Schedule A?

Schedule A is an excepted service hiring authority available to federal agencies to hire and/or to promote individuals with disabilities without competing the job. Utilizing the Schedule A hiring authority to fill a vacancy allows federal agencies to avoid using the traditional, and sometimes lengthy, competitive hiring process. You are eligible for a Schedule A appointment if you are a person with a severe physical or mental disability, and meet the qualifications of the job in question. There are no specific definitions as to what qualifies as a “severe mental or physical disability” under Schedule A, so federal agencies are free to interpret the requirements broadly.

Want more information? Read on!

This guide provides answers to most of your questions about using Schedule A to get through the federal hiring process.

http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/initiatives/le ... ties.cfm#2



Tahitiii
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22 Apr 2013, 5:27 pm

Thanks, Tyri0n.
____________________

Ok, rather than hijacking this thread any more, I’ve started a spin-off.
Any of you mugs can join me at:
Job advocate / liaison? http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5349757.html#5349757

`