Apparently we have our own concept on what fake is

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revolutionarygirl
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06 May 2013, 6:59 pm

Ettina wrote:
Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can't be friendly to them out of a sense of politeness.


This is what I was thinking. I don't go out of my way to talk to people I don't like but if they talk to me, I'll talk back. I see no reason why to stir up negative feelings. I don't do much to carry on the conversation. I have hard time faking an interest in something though. If someone starts yaking about what them and their significant other did last night, or how their kids are, I don't know how to respond in a way to make it seem like I care. I feel bad, because I know they are just trying to make conversation, but I just don't care!



thegreataturn
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06 May 2013, 7:22 pm

The thing I find fascinating is people being two faced .

I used to be able to sit for hours watching my mother. She would talk to someone for an hour about how dreadful someone was, they would leave and the person she was taking about would turn up . Then she would talk to them for an hour about how much she hated the person that just left. None of my mothers so called friends seemed to like each other one bit . If two of or more of them got together with her it was an out assault
on whoever didn't happen to be there at the time .



alakazaam
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06 May 2013, 10:47 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I was out on the patio talking to my mother while my son was playing in his new fort my husband and my dad and uncle built for him and it's still has yet to be finished. We were talking about my old neighborhood I grew up in up till 12 years of age before we moved. Mom was talking about these neighbors we had when we lived there and I sure learned something new about the parents. Mom told me she didn't like the guy that lived there and she thought he was mean and verbally abusive to his wife just by what he'd say about women and what he thought of them. She said she didn't like either of them but she still talked to the woman that lived there and I said to her I guess I did her and them a favor unintentionally, asking her right in front of her why she was talking to her and I thought she didn't like her. That family never spoke to my mother again and I said in the conversation today it was as if I was saying "stop pretending you are friends" and mom told me she wasn't pretending, she was just being a good neighbor by chatting with her and you can still chat with someone and not be their friend. She also told me you can still talk to someone even if you don't like them because it's part of being a good neighbor. To me it all seemed fake because if you don't like someone, why pretend so? But to her it's not fake. So I had learned NTs have their own concept on what fakeness is. We think it's fake when someone doesn't like us but act like they do by chatting with us and to them it's not fake.

It must be a social thing, part of the social rules.


I agree with your concept 100%. NT's are fake in every possible way. I don't talk to a lot of people at work for two reasons. I either don't like them or they haven't talked to me yet.



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06 May 2013, 11:41 pm

Sethno wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I was out on the patio talking to my mother while my son was playing in his new fort my husband and my dad and uncle built for him and it's still has yet to be finished. We were talking about my old neighborhood I grew up in up till 12 years of age before we moved. Mom was talking about these neighbors we had when we lived there and I sure learned something new about the parents. Mom told me she didn't like the guy that lived there and she thought he was mean and verbally abusive to his wife just by what he'd say about women and what he thought of them. She said she didn't like either of them but she still talked to the woman that lived there and I said to her I guess I did her and them a favor unintentionally, asking her right in front of her why she was talking to her and I thought she didn't like her. That family never spoke to my mother again and I said in the conversation today it was as if I was saying "stop pretending you are friends" and mom told me she wasn't pretending, she was just being a good neighbor by chatting with her and you can still chat with someone and not be their friend. She also told me you can still talk to someone even if you don't like them because it's part of being a good neighbor. To me it all seemed fake because if you don't like someone, why pretend so? But to her it's not fake. So I had learned NTs have their own concept on what fakeness is. We think it's fake when someone doesn't like us but act like they do by chatting with us and to them it's not fake.

It must be a social thing, part of the social rules.


There's a difference between "not liking" someone and "disliking" them. Unfortunately, when "doesn't like" or "don't like" is openly said, it invariably gets taken as meaning "dislike".

Took me a good while to figure that out.




What does dislike mean?

What does not like mean?


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cubedemon6073
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08 May 2013, 7:41 am

League_Girl wrote:
Sethno wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I was out on the patio talking to my mother while my son was playing in his new fort my husband and my dad and uncle built for him and it's still has yet to be finished. We were talking about my old neighborhood I grew up in up till 12 years of age before we moved. Mom was talking about these neighbors we had when we lived there and I sure learned something new about the parents. Mom told me she didn't like the guy that lived there and she thought he was mean and verbally abusive to his wife just by what he'd say about women and what he thought of them. She said she didn't like either of them but she still talked to the woman that lived there and I said to her I guess I did her and them a favor unintentionally, asking her right in front of her why she was talking to her and I thought she didn't like her. That family never spoke to my mother again and I said in the conversation today it was as if I was saying "stop pretending you are friends" and mom told me she wasn't pretending, she was just being a good neighbor by chatting with her and you can still chat with someone and not be their friend. She also told me you can still talk to someone even if you don't like them because it's part of being a good neighbor. To me it all seemed fake because if you don't like someone, why pretend so? But to her it's not fake. So I had learned NTs have their own concept on what fakeness is. We think it's fake when someone doesn't like us but act like they do by chatting with us and to them it's not fake.

It must be a social thing, part of the social rules.


There's a difference between "not liking" someone and "disliking" them. Unfortunately, when "doesn't like" or "don't like" is openly said, it invariably gets taken as meaning "dislike".

Took me a good while to figure that out.




What does dislike mean?

What does not like mean?


This is what I am wondering myself. I don't understand it either. I thought the word dis was a prefix that meant not. I thought they meant the exact same thing.



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08 May 2013, 8:31 am

i have always taken a stance of disbelief when i talk to people. i have a problem which makes me think that most people are lying when they talk, and i am not interested in what they say as a result.

i know i should give their stories the "benefit of the doubt", but my doubts are difficult to ignore. if i have no proof that what someone says to me is true, then i will most often discard what they say as a probable lie.

all the world is fake. people wear hats for no reason and they get themselves emblazoned with tattoos that are permanent and seriously unpliable in their message
they pierce themselves and then they trot themselves out for public scrutiny.

people live for people and i am not included in that circuit.



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08 May 2013, 9:32 am

I can see what your Mother meant up to a point.

I don't lke my neighbous on either side as they have given me a clear message that they think they are above me and I've had set tos with them in the past but it just makes life easier to act in an accommodating way in terms of doing things like taking in parcel deliveries for them as then it means they will do the same for us. Our paths hardly ever cross anyway so it's no big deal.

It's the convenience/not wanting any hassle aspect as opposed to liking them or the desire for a friendship aspect. It's generally better to be on neutral/civil terms with another human than hostile terms as you are then more likely to get compliance from them if you need something from them.



b9
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08 May 2013, 9:43 am

who's mother? surely not mine! you are very non specific in your conversational style.



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08 May 2013, 10:02 am

b9 wrote:
who's mother? surely not mine! you are very non specific in your conversational style.


The OP's mother



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08 May 2013, 10:37 am

Hello,

when I read the topic line, I thought yes that's it.... I write down my - as yet not very organized - thoughts, before I go and try to separate my child from Minecraft.
--------------------------
NT's are fake in every possible way, as was said in this thread.
I'm NT - so the above and the rest (do a quick search in this forum along the lines of "NT's are ...." is meant to apply to me. (I like to be thorough so I spent something like six month reading back pages and back threads in all subforums until it seemed to me as if topics and opinions started to repeat themselves.)

I was brought up on the saying (or quote) "Mit Höflichkeit kann man sich die Leute besser vom Leib halten als mit Grobheit"?
Meaning - all those little social rules are not fake, they are genuine and help to keep people at a distance without interfering with the functioning of the group. They endure me, I endure them. And no, they don't think I am friends with them, they know I follow the rules.
Those rules serve a de-escalating purpose (see Babel Fish)

Gossip on the other hand, follows different rules. There are a number of interesting studies on that topic, but you'll have to find them yourself, as I can't access my reading list at the moment. (USB sticks are very usefull, but so small.)

---------------------------------
And before I go, a thank you :D (another empty social rule), because, my reading here has introduced me to:
a great book written by a member ("Congratulations ....")
a number of books and TV series that were unknown to me
references to online lectures I would't have found on my own
and a collection of things that may or may not turn out to be problematic for my child

Again thank you

Ennik



b9
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08 May 2013, 10:42 am

...



Last edited by b9 on 08 May 2013, 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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08 May 2013, 11:05 am

Ettina wrote:
Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can't be friendly to them out of a sense of politeness.


Agreed. And IMO, we don't have a right to behave nasty to someone just because we don't like them.



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08 May 2013, 10:03 pm

Sethno wrote:
There's a difference between "not liking" someone and "disliking" them.


My thoughts exactly!

I can at times (if I have anything to say that is) be bothered to chat with someone even they aren't someone I like, but I wouldn't with someone I dislike.


League Girl and Cube Demon: This is hard to explain but I'll try. NTs can mix that one up too. I remember in high school there was a guy who tried to explain to another boy that he didn't dislike him, he just didn't like him.

When you dislike someone, you have something against them. I disliked the neighbor who lived under us because she was always making untrue complaints about us because she was dog hater (she had no problems with us before we got the dog).

We have several neighbors in our stairwell who are rather new. I don't like them. I don't know any of them at all, so how can I like them? I have nothing against them either. I don't like them, I don't dislike them.

The same were true for most of the people I knew in school. I had nothing against them, they hadn't done anything to me and I didn't find them annoying, so I didn't dislike them.
But I didn't like them (enjoy their company, like talking to them, seek them out, appreciate them) either. Therefore it's correct to say that I didn't like them, because I lacked liking for them. I was indifferent or neutral to them.


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09 May 2013, 1:10 am

Skilpadde wrote:
Sethno wrote:
There's a difference between "not liking" someone and "disliking" them.


My thoughts exactly!

I can at times (if I have anything to say that is) be bothered to chat with someone even they aren't someone I like, but I wouldn't with someone I dislike.


League Girl and Cube Demon: This is hard to explain but I'll try. NTs can mix that one up too. I remember in high school there was a guy who tried to explain to another boy that he didn't dislike him, he just didn't like him.

When you dislike someone, you have something against them. I disliked the neighbor who lived under us because she was always making untrue complaints about us because she was dog hater (she had no problems with us before we got the dog).

We have several neighbors in our stairwell who are rather new. I don't like them. I don't know any of them at all, so how can I like them? I have nothing against them either. I don't like them, I don't dislike them.

The same were true for most of the people I knew in school. I had nothing against them, they hadn't done anything to me and I didn't find them annoying, so I didn't dislike them.
But I didn't like them (enjoy their company, like talking to them, seek them out, appreciate them) either. Therefore it's correct to say that I didn't like them, because I lacked liking for them. I was indifferent or neutral to them.



I've never liked or not liked anyone if I didn't know them. If someone were to as me if I like a person and I barely knew them or didn't know them, I would have said "I don't know, I don't know them." Why would I not like someone if I don't know them? if I didn't have anything in common with them, I still don't see why I shouldn't not like them.

I do remember in 5th grade a girl didn't like me, I wonder if she may have meant she had nothing against me, we just are not friends and we don't know each other or have anything in common. Even another girl who I thought was my friend told me in 8th grade she didn't like me and mom told me she is a kid so she didn't explain it right, she meant we don't have things in common.

I am sure people have said they don't like someone and meant they dislike them. I think my mom meant dislike when she said it about a realtor and she said to my dad she didn't like her because of the way she treated me and she isn't buying from her.


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09 May 2013, 2:39 pm

Quote:
What does dislike mean?

What does not like mean?


Dislike means you have negative feelings about the person. 'Not like' means you don't have positive feelings about the person.

If you don't feel any emotion about them at all, you won't like them, but you won't dislike them either.



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09 May 2013, 3:06 pm

thegreataturn wrote:
The thing I find fascinating is people being two faced .

I used to be able to sit for hours watching my mother. She would talk to someone for an hour about how dreadful someone was, they would leave and the person she was taking about would turn up . Then she would talk to them for an hour about how much she hated the person that just left. None of my mothers so called friends seemed to like each other one bit . If two of or more of them got together with her it was an out assault
on whoever didn't happen to be there at the time .


This drives me up the wall, but I think I've become more inured to it anymore. I used to disengage completely from these people, but I've come to react less extremely over time. More flies with honey, I guess. :?