Nasty (NT) behaviour

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Good point. All true. It's kind of a weird culture that we have to laugh constantly when we gather with people we don't see too often.

It's really complicated when you have AS, you are not wired to socialize in the way that works for most people, that including the "attacking"-norm.

Last edited by qawer on 18 May 2013, 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

Very true too. I have honestly given up on socialising due to experiences similar to yours and constant misunderstandings.

Exactly - it's far too mentally wearing and unpleasant for me; some people thrive on it though

it is all about status but status as achieved by threat and aggression rather than intelligence

It's low level, socially accepted aggression and I can't abide it

If you give them honest, open aggression when provoked that's not socially acceptable, which I find utterly bizarre - the low level banter type stuff's far nastier in my opinion and strongly indicative of bad character

Feels like being in a warzone. lol.

The problem is that I have a difficult time making my attacks sound "non-genuine", and then they start to feel that it becomes personal, as if it hasn't been that all the time. At the bottom line no attacks are "for fun"...people are playing the social status game, and that is deadly serious. They are just not consciously aware of it, more intuitively. Not daring attacking back is an indicator of lower status.

Last edited by qawer on 18 May 2013, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

As you said before, you evidently feel it's worth putting up with this in order to have friends/more friends

I like to have far more control over my environment than that and will only tolerate this kind of thing when I'm forced to
eg in the workplace and even then I will usually end up losing my temper at some point

To me, a lot of it is about how much self respect you have ie the extent to which you will tolerate other people dictating the terms of the interaction

I hate having to listen to other people giving some rude idiot loads of attention and admiration

Yes.

It's the perpetual dilemma of surviving vs. preserving self respect. Most awful dilemma. I want both but they are often times mutually exclusive.

Last edited by qawer on 18 May 2013, 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think this is why a lot of people drink so much - to blot it all out

I'm subserviant to no one, hence I have no need to blot anything out

Just like a cat. Love their self respect. If they don't like you, they'll let you know, even when their survival is completely dependent on you. So if a cat likes you, it genuinely likes you.

Last edited by qawer on 18 May 2013, 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

I totally agree, a lot of people do drink to avoid the reality of life and perpetuate the false laughter.
As is obvious a joke can become a lot more nasty once alcohol is involved.

Yes, that's the best way to be

Obviously I don't go out of my way to provoke people who might harm me but I certainly don't bow down to them either and I would never want to be friends with a disrespectful person

As a result I'd say my life is often boring but far less traumatic and mentally draining

If I try to play the social game my attacks came off is genuine too, my jokes come off as advice as far as I can tell and I often get into trouble. I will never understand how attacking people can be fun and why receving attacks should be fun aswell. People have told me I take everything too personally so maybe thats part of the issue of why some of us can't enjoy or survive the attacks very well. Starting in my school days I did notice the attacks directed toward me(and select others) were often times more pointed and then the mindless banter the other kids did to each other so there was for sure some intent to hurt or knock down some people while mostly just playing around with others.

In my experience, NTs like to play a game called "lets pick on the aspie!" I for one am kind of a naive and gullible aspie (albeit lesser so now than previously). I'm sure you all know that aspies are easy targets for those who want to enjoy some cheap laughs at the expense of someone who is so desperate for friendship they would forgive them anyway. Nasty NTs do like to exploit us for their personal gain because we tend to be easy to exploit.

Some NTs also love watching us react to certain things because it's always funny/interesting as it is unusual.

But yeah, aspies and NTs alike can be as*holes, but I feel that since NTs have more of a drive to fit in, they are more likely to stomp on you to get there and feel belonging with their group. Moreover, the difficulty aspies have at deceit, coupled with our loyalty and our compassion (aspies can empathize with things they've been through like bullying, so they are more likely to be wary and compassionate of it), makes us generally better people. I also feel that some if the "purest hearted" people have been aspies, for obvious reasons.

On the flip side, when I was an immature, undiagnosed middle schooler who had no idea why she was being ostracized, I did stomp on people in an attempt to get an in with them. I didn't care who I was hurting- I was callous and mean. I was so desperate for acceptance that I would have done anything the popular kids said. Needless to say they exploited me to do their dirty work and then quickly dumped me altogether. Of course in middle school nonverbal cues are the most important thing because kids are just starting to discover them, so I was the oblivious oddball. It was painful and sometimes I took out my anger on others. I was an ass.

I really wish I was normal. Often when I go out with A group of NTs and immediately feel like the space alien, I would do anything to fit in, to feel connected to then. The problem is that I do yearn for that feeling of connection, and as one of the few extroverted aspies I love to socialize so my life is just a constant frustration when I can't.

Instead of connecting I become the outcasts, and some immature, insecure, or malevolent NTs have a tendency to exploit the outsider to feel closer to the insiders. I actually understand that feeling but hate it because the outsider is always me. In middle school I yearned so much to feel belonging that I went against my morals often, but at the end of the day, I always lost out.

I would give up everything to become an NT and be able to connect with people. It is such a sad and lonely existence for an aspie extrovert.

/rant

This is why I get offended when people say ''people with ASDs lack empathy''. One person says empathy means ''ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes'', yes I know that, but then the description goes into ''understanding how they feel/respecting their feelings/feeling how others are feeling/caring about their feelings...'' BS, it really is. NTs only feel this empathy when they want, just the same as Aspies.

After so many threads and PMs of explaining empathy, I still don't get it, and when I see threads about us commenting negatively on NT behaviour towards other people (Aspies or not), it makes this empathy thing become even more unclear.

Going back to OP's original question, I cannot understand why anyone, would go and wake someone up to say goodbye. It's just selfish behaviour full stop, and if done as a "joke" is plain nasty. If someone is sleeping I go out of my way to creep around not to wake them, because I am a light sleeper and hate being woken up myself so I show others the same respect that I would like. And I score low on empathy tests! If someone thinks selfish behaviour is funny, they are an a***hole and there is no defending that. Laughing at (and defending) things that involve demeaning, offending, causing inconvenience or hurt (and I count depriving someone of their sleep as hurt) speaks volumes about the person's character.

That person probably does that to all of his friends and you happened to be his flavour of the day.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels that way about it.

I noticed another guy the other guys knew on beforehand. He was in a deep sleep, very tired indeed. They did everything to wake him up. Not because they were going somewhere, I cannot tell why they did it. Threw things over him, pulled his legs. Incredibly he managed to keep 'sleeping' for quite some time. But they did not stop until he reacted by kicking back, so they knew they succeeded in waking him up. That behaviour is not too uncommon between friends.

I'll never get it.