AS/HFA: The difference

Post Reply New Topic

Ah good. It seems a lot of people don't understand the difference, so I hope this thread can help. Putting thoughts into words is hard unless there's a starting point of reference. The more replies, the more points of reference for us to draw upon.
Personally, I don't hate talking. Talking does not sap my energy, or mentally exhausting. Speaking with Bouchard, who has seen both AS and autistic children at play, he agrees with what I have read, that being that autistic children are content with their form of socializing but AS children have similar social requirements as neurotypicals, but lack the same skills at fulfilling that need.
For example, if I had something to say and said it but it wasn't acknowledged, I would consider my need fulfilled. AS people, or at least some, require acknowledgement.
Another example, my social need is fulfilled simply by logging on the chatroom. I don't have to read what is said or to contribute to fill that need.

I wonder if anyone here has been to Autreat and could comment on this. Did the people at Autreat all talk or were most of them quiet just taking pleasure in being in general proximity? It would be an interesting experience for sure, and probably quite enlightening.

[danlo
Butterfly
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 13]

About Ghosthunter...>
•washing yourself:

This is not a issue, I like
taking showers.

•feeding yourself nutritiously

"I don't starve myself", this
is why I worked mostly food
jobs, housed or dishoused.

•washing clothes

As a matter of interest, I even
wash my friends laundry because
it is the folding and tactile
aspect of laundry I like.

•washing your hair

When you shave your head
every 6 months, this is still
relevant and is done as well,
as a matter of fact I even shave
the back of my neck every 4 days
while in the shower.

•brushing my teeth

I do this because I know it
saves me a serious dentist bill
and I like a clean mouth regardless.

•things that are basic but essential]


Question?

["The only times when I've realized
I have some internal problems is
under the effects of alcohol."]

What does alchohol do to you
that makes it specifically mentioned?
(You implied it allowed internal body
issues to come forth and this is the
first time I heard of that from anyone
I have met.)


Question?
[•realizing I have internal problems =

A)...there's nothing I can do about it.
B)...Telling someone I know would
be impossible. ]

Is this what you meant by LFA possibility
in self-help issues?

[danlo
Butterfly
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 13

•It seems a lot of people don't
understand the difference, so I
hope this thread can help. Putting
thoughts into words is hard
unless there's a starting point of
reference.

•The more replies, the more points
of reference for us to draw upon.

•Speaking with Bouchard, who has seen
both AS and autistic children at play, he
agrees with what I have read, that being
that autistic children are content with their
form of socializing but AS children have
similar social requirements as neurotypicals,
but lack the same skills at fulfilling that need.

•if I had something to say and said it but
it wasn't acknowledged, I would consider
my need fulfilled. HFA/LFA

•require acknowledgement. AS]

Since there is many possible crossovers
in the autism spectrum disorder I would say
any opinion(professional or deductive)
will have some inaccuracies.


If I were to guess your profession
I would say you were either a
psychology major, or have worked
with autistic children.
[•Speaking with Bouchard, who has seen
both AS and autistic children at play, he
agrees with what I have read, that being
that autistic children are content with their
form of socializing but AS children have
similar social requirements as neurotypicals,
but lack the same skills at fulfilling that need. ]

I find you(Danlo) intriguing, and very
expressive beyond the oridinary and
that is why I say this. Am I accurate?

Where did you get that info from? I was under the impression that less than 50% with "classic" autism were nonverbal (3 of Kanner's original 11 cases were nonverbal for example), so for HFA (IQ > 70) I would guess this figure would be even smaller?

I like your ideas though, I disagree with saying "language defines whether you have HFA or AS". Whether you have HFA or AS influences your sensory perceptions (including auditory), your cognition (delayed processing, auditory processing differences etc.) and your ability to initiate, co-ordinate etc. movements (including speech) differently, so any differences in developmental trends would presumably be CAUSED by these differences, not DEFINED by them.

An interesting topic. I started speaking around age 2, though I used a couple of words for 10 months before. Before I turned 3 my speech was difficult to comprehend, because I used many words of my own invention (my mother made a dictionary).

I love talking and in the past gladly engaged in long monologues (I try to limit them after I became aware that they were perceived as rather boring ). Speaking is somewhat exhausting, though. When I am tired I don't talk very well and resort to communication by grunting. Sometimes I get stuck completely and can't speak even when I want to and know what to say. This happens very rarely.

Speaking of my social needs, they were always rather limited. I never depressed over not having friends, because I discovered friendship only recently. Before that my concept of a 'friend' was an acquaintance established for a concrete purpose or convenience. When I was in high school, my mother was very concerned about my 'loneliness' (as well as other weirdness), consulted psychologists and concluded that I was "mentally ill", while I didn't see anything abnormal or wrong in not having any acquaintances whatsoever. I didn't notice that I was supposed to have them. I must say that I am surprised at the level of self-consciousness that WrongPlanet's teens demonstrate in their posts.

I think if you say MEASURABLE with *standard* tests, then I guess LFA is below 70, but yes of course someone who has severe problems initiating action, and severe processing delays, can APPEAR LFA but have a high IQ none the less. Just no way of communicating their skills.

Donna Williams writes a lot about this in "Autism - an Inside Out Approach" if you are interested.

Response to Noetic:
The 50% figure was from this site http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/aut.html, also http://www.healthynj.org/dis-con/autism/main.htm. It would seem this was the old figure but is now believed to be 15% when intervention techniques are employed.

The LFA/HFA and AS differentiate is to differentiate between which hemisphere the deficiencies are in. Knowing this allows to employ more specialized training and learning keyed to work past these deficiencies. You can't treat the symptoms without knowing the underlying cause. Take the blind and deaf for example. Using braille to teach the deaf and giving hearing aids to the blind will not help them.

You have obviously failed to grasp the key fundamental difference, which I tried to explain in an earlier post. Its not the delayed language but that the language centres in the brain are more underdeveloped in HFA/LFA than AS. The delayed language is simply indicative of which area you are deficient in, but is by no means a certain indication. You can have delayed speech without brain deficiencies.

Just think of the terms: Low functioning autistic, and high functioning autistic. The keyword being functioning. Even if you had an iq of 200, but it fails to help you function past a basic level, you are low functioning. IQ by itself means absolutely squat. If I could mentally calculate the vectors of every atom in a star, but could not function and look after myself, how does this make me a high functioning autistic? It doesn't.


It probably allows the subconscious to come through more easily, when your conscious mind is dulled by alcohol. Its not body issues, I just used the word internal because it was the closest word I could think of at the time. It means something other but I cannot explain in words.


This is why I asked for the opinion of someone who's seen both AS and HFA/LFA in the social setting. See the end of my post.

As to your other questions, I went to school with a few AS and one LFA autistic. I'm not a psychology anything, autism is just a perseveration of mine. Being expressive beyond ordinary is probably a result of an unique upbringing. I grew up in a house with 6 other siblings. I was diagnosed early and my mother used her own intervention techniques. Like memorizing faces in different emotional states, different body postures and their meanings, learning to read and speak through phonetics. I was homeschooled until I was 12 and my mom a stay at home mother, she gave intensive behavior therapy to control my behavior. She had a unique method of deep pressure stimulation: soaking a towel with warm water and wrapping it tightly around my chest.

It still seems odd - Kanner didn't use ABA or anything else like the modern "Interventions", yet 8 of 11 patients learned to speak.

Personally, I think it is partly a question of timing, and also of hempisphere dominance. For example, there are certain stages in development that stand out in autism - 18 months (regression in some), 4-5 years (some spontaneously develop language, others suddenly become more aware of their surroundings) and 6-7 years (others who were nonverbal but not totally aloof gain language spontaneously).

Also, there are preferences in brain hemispheres that are unrelated to autism - so someone who is more left-brained, and has damage to the right hemisphere, is less likely to have severe problems (and vice-versa).


That is what I said! Executive functioning, motor control, sensory processing and problems with attention and initiating movement and action can make self- help skills extremely hard, regardless of what a person is able to do "in their head".

Sorry but you really don't need to explain to me what Autism is


That is fantastic - did she come up with this herself?

For me it is mainly pressure on my upper back that helps give me a feeling of "body togetherness". I am still looking for the perfect rucksack that doesn't hang too far down.

I can understand your point, but I am so confused by what the difference is that the more different ways that it is being brought forth on this thread is helping me greatly.

ElfMan

I didn't mean to say this shouldn't be discussed, I just found it sounded a bit patronising, because I know full well how LFA and HFA are defined in theory and have stated as much in this thread, so when someone responds telling me in practically the same words what I just said it feels patronising.

Noetic, I said I understood hey, and what you have written in an explanation is exactly how I understood it to be for you, that's why I said I understood.

What did I actually write that upset you.
I was only saying I liked the different versions. I never once said anything about you saying that it should be discussed, why say that?

ElfMan

You didn't - you quoted my response ("... you don't need to explain...") to danlo, it wasn't a response to you in the first place.

I was just explaining my response (written to danlo) to you because you quoted it, that's all.

Oh lol at myself...silly me...sorry about that.

I got my diagnosis today. Because I could not recall much childhood stuff they did not differentiate between HFA and Aspergers. I feel like I have been given permission to be ME at long last. On a whole though, I am still trying to figure out what I am actually feeling.

My mum was recalling ... after I told her of diagnosis ... that when I was little I was slow to learn things like crawling and walking and talking etc. Later to pick things up compared to other kids. But she said that I did not practice anything. All of a sudden I was walking. All of a sudden I was speaking in sentences and such.

ElfMan

No problem, I should've made sure to point it out BEFORE responding to you!


That sounds pretty much "normal", for AS/HFA.

Also, not practising, that seems fairly common.

Noetic, it wasn't meant to be patronizing. But perhaps you should reread your post and examine exactly what it is that it said:

You stated that you disagreed with something that I did not say, so I felt I should restate what I was saying since you had gotten it mixed up. Then, you agreed with what I was saying as if I hadn't said it at all.


That quote shows that yes, you know the current theory. that LFA requires a low IQ. Capitalizing the words "appear lfa" told me that you thought having a high IQ disqualifies you from being LFA and you only appear LFA if you don't have a low IQ. Then when I expanded with examples, you state that you already know. These two comments conflict with each other and are contradictory.


well then, you know exactly what it was like when you made the post, disagreeing with something I had not said, then restating what I said as if I hadn't said it, and then accusing me of being patronizing for trying to clarify the misunderstanding.

Bloody weird DISAGREEMENTS all over this site at the moment...I'm going to bed...See everyone in the morning when I can handle all this crazyness better.