I feel more evil when becoming more social

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Well, it is true that in the worldview of people who measure others as "worth more/worth less", autism might make a person worth less. But honestly, that is not the worldview of every person. But it is true that it might be harder for you to compete in an elite social group (such as Janissy posted about.) You weren't planning to join a yacht club or anything, were you? You're just talking about meeting other regular people and hanging out with them, right?

I find it hard to understand what got you into thinking that taking responsibility for the survival of your own biological mechanism is "evil". What is "good"? Taking care of others without thought for obtaining food, shelter, money, and love for yourself? Who is supposed to take care of YOU, then? Isn't it more "evil" to let others take care of both themselves AND you?

There is not such thing as being higher or lower than someone.

Every human is the same. Even the rich ones are just humans. They all also eat, s**t, have diseases, can die at any time. Every human in this universe are the same as everyone else.
I say Hi! to the pizza guy just the same way I say to my CEO.
All you need is to treat everyone like humans, cuz that is just what they are. Humans are just dust in the universe, we are nothing.

Watch on youtube Richard Feynman talking about the british royal family and u'll know what im talking about.

I wouldn't call it evil, but there is a definite social dominance factor with most people and in many conversations, especially when you get past the small talk. This is especially true for larger groups of friends, where people tend to form social hierarchies. Then again, I could be coming from a biased point of view, since most of my friends are engineers.

I'm finding it easy to agree with each "side" of this, maintaining a social level has valid points, treating everyone the same has valid points.

It took me years to discover this:
People with decent self-esteem can handle you being yourself, generous to those "below" you and casual with those "above" you.
(as if there is such a thing as "above" and "below")

People with poor self-esteem will silently demand that you validate their needs of stratifying, especially stratifying them quite highly.
If they're "below" you, they're happy you talk to them; if they're "above" you, they're UNhappy you talk to them. (unless you remember to grovel properly)
And they want you to reinforce their self-esteem by copying their idea of who should be at what level.

I didn't make that very clear but maybe you can understand what I mean.

In my experience, people with low self-esteem can do some pretty horrible things. People with decent or high self-esteem are eager for you to be yourself (for real).

This is why qawer is right about how hierarchy can work, this is also why arielhawksquill is right about people's world views, and why Callista is right about treating everyone decently and as interesting.

Hang out with people with good self-esteem and you can socialize without being evil.
They may even like you!

Hi 1401b,

Those are very good points.

I just have this feeling that the whole hierarchy lies below it all, and that's why I don't like it.

I don't like to treat those "more handicapped" than myself as having less value than myself. At the same time I don't like others to exclusively value me according to how fit I am for survival.


But I guess I'll just have to accept that people from the outside are going to estimate my worth by how fit I am for survival. And that I "should" do the same with other people.

But still, I think of this judging as being evil - both ways. What bothers me the most is that the more accepting I am of others, the less are they going to accept/respect me because it indirectly tells them that I don't think I'm worth more than them - so they conclude they are worth more than me. Then I react to this, and they're surprised by how much evil I can actually treat them when they start that show. And this is why I'm supposedly bad at socializing - because I don't want to put up with the social hierarchy. I guess I'll have to swallow it, and look like I accept it.

why are you handing victory to the primitives? you are supposed to be better than that, better than the mercenary primitives who value worldly values more than eternal values. that is the whole reason you incarnate on earth. just my opinion, I could not let that go without comment. you can slap me later.

I see your point.

But then again, are there really any internal values when life actually is about survival? At least everything everyone does is concerned with survival, so how could it be about anything else!

Seems like there only is worldly values. This implies evil among humans in my opinion, particularly in the social scene. Everyone is eventually in it for themselves, all relationships are conditional, the only relationship that is not is the one you have to yourself.

I said ETERNAL values, like the golden rule for starters- do onto others as you would have them do onto yourself, or at least don't do onto others what you don't want them to do to you. or both. and NOT everyone is "in it for themselves" - that is cutting millions of pious people of spirit, to the quick. there are too many good and decent people all over, to conclude that the whole world is negative. an old saying is "kindness pads about on little cat feet, but meanness stomps about like a bear." the bears are drowning out the cats. but the cats do still exist if one listens for their soft mewling. kindness exists but one has to be receptive to it for it can be very subtle. you are right that to live->evil, but we are all here to at least TRY to transcend this mortal ethical limitation. we each can decide just for this day, to be good. every morning, we can decide for this day, to be good. I don't know about anybody else, but I wanna meet my maker and have something GOOD to show for my time down here in this hellworld, and not have to explain why I didn't try harder to be good. that is just me.

I see. You want your life to be good even though you know the basic fundament often is not. I guess that is a possible solution to my problem.

You just have to turn evil sometimes if you want to survive, especially socially. I find it's difficult to appreciate that.

you are on the right track then, for those who revel in things corrupt as they are, are morally blinkered and karmically indebted.

Who gets to judge worth here?

You aren't seriously appointing as judges the unscrupulous people who will trample over people's rights to get to the top of the heap, are you?

Sure, they could probably intimidate others into kowtowing to them. They might even get status, wealth, and pretty girls.

But think about what happens to the nice guy who treats people as equals and truly values them, who helps them when they need help. That person has friends who are trustworthy. He has people who have his back because they know that he's got theirs. When he's in a tough spot, the people he has treated well, because he thinks of them as valuable, will help him out in return. A nice guy collects around him people who are also nice guys.

What happens to the jerk when he falls on tough times--the guy who takes advantage of others? Well, he's just fallen down the social ladder, hasn't he? And all the people around him know the rules of the game: They take their opportunity to step on him on their own way up.

Which do you think is the more lasting social position--the ephemeral status that comes with being the biggest jerk, or the reputation for being a trustworthy friend that will stick with you through thick and thin?

Let's look at the absolute worst case scenario. Let's say that the only way to get social status is to be evil. Would you really want social status if that were the price? To become the sort of person you hate is not something you would want to do. Neither would I. It's quite simply not worth it.

But the worst-case scenario is not reality. Most people are not jerks. Some people are playing the jerk game because they feel it's the only way; others have opted out and have decided not to care what people think. Who's more powerful--the jerk who's dependent on everyone else to give him his status, or the person who knows that he's okay the way he is and doesn't need anyone's approval? Find the people who don't like the system the way it is. Those are the people you can really trust, and those are the people you can befriend without having to be an evil person.