What do NTs hate so much about us?

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Now that is a surprise.

I'm glad you guys mentioned the uncanny valley effect; I have had been tell me in the past that I gave off weird vibes, and I never really understood what that meant until I read about the uncanny valley. It's not so bad for me now, but I could tell I can sometimes cause a general unease in those around me, even if I'm not doing anything in particular. Unfortunately, there's simply not a lot one can do about that.

As for saying that NT's hate those with AS, I can't really get on board with that. This massively stereotypes both groups, and is incredibly unfair to both them and us. It turns them into villains and gives us a victim complex, and neither of those things are at all helpful.

I seem to find it quite easy to find common ground with people in general and I think being able to do this has made socialising a bit easier for me. I think both NT's and AS people have a lot to offer in the world and we would do well to give each other a chance and learn from each other.

I don't think I am a typical AS person, I think I do quite well in bridging the gap without having to try to behave in accordance with what is expected from the rest of society.

I like your style.

NTs are different. Maybe the reason you seem to notice that they exclude you is because your aspie score only puts you at a little over half aspie (that's cool, livin' on the edge! haha). I think maybe you need to consider that they don't hate you. Have you turned down a lot of their invitations? Are they doing things in the pictures of them that you would even like, or are they trying to spare your sensitive aspie self? Do they know you're an aspie? My friends do a lot of things without me, I always see them places in Facebook pictures, but they are places everybody knows I would not do well. I get invited more to do one on one things, I go to more "family only" stuff with my friends, to keep them company, I get invited to more "only one friend can fit in the car" things, because I never run out of things to do. By the way, my friends don't know about the asperger's (suspicions, but almost certainly true).

I don't think I'm "hated" by NT people but they get annoyed by me and then there's some NT people that really like me. So I guess it just depends on the person. There's some aspies that annoy me and some that I think are cool, it goes both ways for all people!

Lots of really insightful stuff here. Thanks!

Yes, I think the Uncanny Valley thing makes a lot of sense. Of course a lot of socializing does NOT come natural to me, so I find myself imitating people (gestures, tone, etc.) to "fit in" but obviously I probably just look like one of those robots who "reads" the text you type into a computer. (I'm not monotone most of the time, but do have my moments, according to friends). I probably give off a different aura or vibe, or maybe it's clear to the more observant that it doesn't come naturally. Maybe my discomfort is contagious? But somehow, despite some uncomfortable moments (I appear a bit stiff sometimes and don't quite know how or when to give affection, respond to sarcastic jokes sometimes, or do something spontaneous. And the concept of discussing things other than ideas just seems so foreign and weird.

However, I enjoy company and feeling wanted as my entire life I've felt like I was born into a world that really doesn't want me. Everyone around me until very recently was constantly trying to change me and force me to become NT, and when I couldn't it became increasingly frustrating. I do have some friends who really do like me (not in my class though) and an amazing aspie fiancé who totally gets me, which is nice, but I kind of feel left out of the bond my small medical school class seems to be enjoying. And it sucks.

Being an aspie extrovert is THE WORST. My fiancé is an introvert which works because he doesn't talk much, so he just looks like the stereotypical shy person. After all, it's best for an aspie to be quiet, as the more one talks the higher chance of putting a foot in his mouth. I love to socialize, share ideas, and connect with people except it's so damn hard to see eye-to-eye with them on a deep level due to our innate differences in seeing the world. Moreover, I find that my classmates connect faster and easier with people, and since they already have connections in the class they don't feel a need to get to know / connect with me.

At this point I feel like nobody cares if I live or die in my class. People just love to make fun of me behind my back (I do have a way of sensing it), even people whom I KNOW respect me (they are genuinely kind and encouraging to me one-on-one but with groupthink everything changes). One girl in my class said it best as a caption for a Facebook photo she posted of the rest of the class on a massive outing nobody bothered telling me about: "My new family." In that case I'm an orphan. It just brought back so many bad memories of being exiled/picked on mercilessly throughout my life as a student (elementary, high school, even university).

I have not made it seem like I would refuse invitations. In fact, I tried to make it clear that I like to go out drinking/partying just like they do (although I hate nightclubs, but so do they for the most part).

Medical school is tough since everyone is even more high-functioning than average (they screen for social skills). It's very frustrating! And I've noticed that people still don't invite me even if they know I'd want to go. There are a few older and mature people (mostly PhDs) who don't really care but at the same time keep to themselves. I wish I could go up to them and talk about my AS and the resulting feelings of isolation but I really don't want to ruin things for me even more. I told a nice classmate who reached out to me via IM to tell me she respects me and that people have been talking bad about me and that she wanted to give me feedback. She said if ever I need feedback to just ask her. Unfortunately she's a huge introvert and chooses not to come on group outings, and she doesn't acknowledge me much in class. I just don't get how people find me that annoying. To me I'm just being normal. I guess being too literal and not spontaneous/emotive/lucid enough might be part of it as well - or me not responding to some of their nonverbal cues. (It's interesting - my issue lies not so much in not being able to read social cues, rather, I struggle with figuring out how to respond to them).

I'm just hoping that eventually my classmates would find me odd but charming, genuine, and kind, which is how my friends and most mature adults see me.

Last edited by aspieMD on 08 Aug 2013, 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

I can definitely say that imitating others will be seen as a red flag. Being uncomfortable around others will produce the same reaction.

Once the feelings of being judged like this are established they tend to multiply and the bias created will cloud your own judgement.

If you can be more comfortable and confident in yourself then I'm sure you will find some nicer people to associate with.

How you do that is totally down to you, as we are all different.

My personal opinion is that shallow people are not worth my time and energy, it will just be disappointing on both sides.

Keep smiling, it's a lot better than the other options.

Last edited by neilson_wheels on 08 Aug 2013, 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

I read every word of your post.....yes, precisely understood. The irony is that Aspies do care and we are extra-sensitive so it hurts even worse. No easy answer there, aspieMD. Just that you're already doing the right thing (& you'll be the best MD).

My mistake is/was to try really hard to 'make friends' with people who really don't like me. I sometimes believe that if I try really hard enough that I can somehow make them like me. Nope. And I have been badly hurt and taken advantage of as a result. Plus, once you've been bullied, then you're forever gunshy. I guess the key is instead to keep close to those whom you do know and like, accepting that you will have a smaller circle of friends than most.

Next, have you considered getting a pet? Right now I do not have one (due to my lifestyle/schedule) but a pet can be the best most loyal friend ever.

I was never cool either and the people that liked me and hung out with me were not considered "cool." They were actually super intelligent. There were only three of them, well really one, that person's sister, and two that liked that person.

But I would always get left out of everything and even at church as an adult. The only time they ever chose me for stuff was when they needed my skills to do something for them. Even with birthdays, we used to celebrate people's birthdays at church but somehow mine would always get over looked. But no one knew I was Aspie then. I also noticed that OP, you are high functioning like I am. I was told recently by and NT who adores me, that some NT's could find us scary especially if we are high functioning because we are too close to them. We look like them and can many ways function like them but that little bit or weirdo scares them because they think that if we are just like them in other other ways than maybe they could have an issue too. Not that being Aspie is contagious but it's kind of a psychological phenomenon . If they keep us at a distance they don't have to deal with the fact that someone who is so close to resembling them has these issues. And not all NT's hate us. I have some NT friends whom I have told I am Aspie and still love me very much and are as close to me as ever if not even moreso. But I understand how you feel and how you could feel like they all hate you but trust me, they don't all hate you. Talleyman was lucky in a sense that he did not care one way or the other if he was included in social activities. I think that if it doesn't bother you not to be included that is great. But for those of us who want to be included, it really hurts. I am right brain dominant too so my emotions are very strong. So I remember crying sometimes when I was left out of stuff. So I know how you feel. But hang in there, I eventually found some NT"s who love me very much and are quite loyal and supportive. I am sure you will too.

Do you know of any other Aspies in your school? When I was in school most of us did not even know what Autism/Asperger's was or that it even existed. Maybe there are other Aspies in your school and maybe you can make friends with them.

Last edited by skibum on 08 Aug 2013, 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oooooh, don't copy people, or they'll think you are a copy cat! What kind of doctor are you going to be?

Have you ever told anyone in your class that you are Aspie and how you feel? Now that I know I don't mind telling people and now everyone is familiar with the Autism Spectrum. That could be very helpful. I just recently told an NT acquaintance of mine and she really helped me understand a social situation. I think since people now know a lot more about Autism than they did in the past, they tend to be more compassionate and more accepting. I would try telling one person in your class that you would like to be friends. I would tell them you are Aspie and how much it hurts you when people treat you the way they do. I told the girl that I wanted to be her friend and she was very happy to be my friend and to accept me and to help me. She has even come to check out WP!

The chance of there being another aspie in my class with me is next to zero. They screen for that. I honestly have not the slightest clue how I was screened beyond that (maybe good grades and MCAT?) Everyone is super-NT.

I don't intentionally copy people. It's a subconscious thing that is common in females with AS. We tend to try to compensate for our awkwardness making people feel uncomfortable by doing something that makes people feel comfortable - which is actually subtle imitation. Hand gestures, tone, etc. Consider this analogy: NTs are musicians with perfect pitch. They can sing the song just by looking at the sheet music. However, those with relative pitch, Aspies, need to hear it played on the piano first at the very least. We have to imitate notes in order to be able to sing something whereas NTs just know by looking how to act/play the music.

I'd love to be an internist, family physician, or pediatrician. Not entirely sure yet. I'm quite fascinated by the human body (my special interest) and am good at memorizing all the crazy anatomy diagrams which is helpful. Honestly, my AS is so far helping me in medical school more than it's harming me, and all the lessons and exercises in our practice course on how to interact with and respond to patients is actually helping me face issues related to my AS and learn them intellectually, which is really a useful bonus. What I do know is that I want to lead by example by spreading compassion to everyone, regardless of neurological status. I also want to be a mentor to autistic/aspie kids who are considering going into medicine and show the world that contrary to popular belief, we can make great physicians, and show them what happens when we don't let dissenters get us down. The feedback I'm getting so far from my small group leader has been positive! In my experience aspies can have the biggest, most caring hearts as we know what it's like to be mistreated and excluded so many of us make it a point to follow the Golden Rule and be extra inclusive and non-judgmental, which is an underrated but essential quality in a physician. I love helping people as it's a way for me to feel useful and wanted (for once). Devoting my life to that seems like a good idea.

Really interesting thread! Lots of good thoughts here. I think the uncanny valley idea is exactly right.

I found that I had very good conversations with people 1-on-1 but was completely shut out in groups. I know it's because I don't detect or give out the right signals, so I seem unfriendly in a group setting.

What happened in high school was that I had enough good 1-on-1 relationships that eventually that got me a sort of pass in group situations. People new what I was like, so they stopped and they new I was reliable, so they stopped demanding that I be different and they collectively accepted their positive 1-on-1 experience of me as representative. I think it helped that I had been actively shunned and excluded for a while, and then they realized that they were being cruel. In my senior year I was invited to a lot of parties and I went and felt awkward the whole time, but was able to talk 1-on-1 within the crowd, so it was OK for a while.

Those were relationships built in a small community over four years of intense exposure and me trying very hard and often screwing up. I don't know how that would work in adult life. I make friends at work or through my wife, now. Making friends at work is very, very hard. I have been doing this long enough that I am quite good at talking to people and getting to know a little about them, but then there is the bit when the relationship should deepen. I never know when to trust people. I think they can tell that and that's another thing that marks me as a visitor from the Uncanny Valley.

Persevere! You will make a great doctor and friends will come through shared interests.

I do understand this and it's not just common in females with AS. It's a problem that I have too, and whatever the cause or functioning it will often raise a subconscious red flag for others. It may be something you would like to work on reducing. Your choice.

I can't say that I am actually hated by anyone who knows me, but I do feel the general public hates me for reasons I will never understand. I only have mild AS and so can hide it very easily, I don't stim out in public (I don't stim, period), and I don't dress in an unusual style (I just wear stylish clothes that I can be sure looks presentable enough to be able to fit in), and I keep my figure in good shape (I am slim anyway), and I've even learnt how to hold myself up straight so I don't have an odd gait either. I spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and so I have been practicing posture and facial expressions, and I've even been told by an honest NT that I look much more confident than I used to when I was a young teen. I even wear a bit of make-up now and I have a nice handbag over my shoulder that makes me look grown-up so I don't look youthful or tomboyish or anything like that. So I couldn't look any more of a conformist if I tried, and it gets more and more frustrating each time I smile at somebody and I get a glare back (which happens a LOT, not just occasionally by one or two moody people, but a lot by anyone), or if I get a funny look from people or odd reactions by youngsters like they're pointing me out.

Jesus Christ, what more do people want from me? If I stand out then who doesn't?