Difference between the way NTs and Apies think

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realityIs
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25 Oct 2013, 10:56 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:

Here's an example. In our discussion, when I think of the concept "word" I have a flitting image of an empty space with a line connecting to an empty space where something else should be. When I think of "justice" I think of two lines in symmetry. When I think of "God" I imagine a circle which radiates from a point outward. When I use the word "the" I imagine the next word of the sentence being darker.

The advantage to this kind of thinking is that I can represent an entire philosophic system in my mind according to patterns of flitting shapes and dashes in which are subsumed other shapes and flitting lines, so that the whole thing is just one image. (Which is easy for philosophy since the consistency of a philosophical system basically means that the same patterns in my head can be used again and again anywhere in the system.)

Pretty cool, huh?

I like Aspergers.

Well I suspect that whoever started writing down Chinese probably had Aspergers.

How do you express your thinking then?

I pretty much think about things I can say to other people. And then I evaluate and change it. Sometimes I just forget it and sometimes I use parts of it. I really pretty much am always thinking about what I can say.

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25 Oct 2013, 10:59 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:

I want to know what you all think of this.
The essential difference between the way Aspies and NTs think is that:

Aspies must think by translating words into images / patterns and back into words. Words alone are not enough.
Whereas NTs can think by using words alone. Images / patterns are not required.

No. I think in both words and images, but def more words than images.

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JSBACHlover
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25 Oct 2013, 11:04 pm

realityIs wrote:

Well I suspect that whoever started writing down Chinese probably had Aspergers.

How do you express your thinking then?

Well, I just have to unravel it all into English, sort of like I'm doing right now. I mean, it took a while but I got good enough at it. But English isn't, in a sense, my "first" language.

What I'm impressed with regarding your communicating style is all the social communication that is going on, getting the person to agree with you on some topic, showing commonality, etc. I have to remind myself to do that sort of thing so I don't sound like I'm inconsiderate and only speaking about myself or my topic. Your communication style has a real social advantage.

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26 Oct 2013, 12:27 am

I think primarily in language. Temple Grandin has written on this subject:

Quote:

9. AUTISTIC THINKING IS SPECIALIZED

When I wrote Thinking in Pictures (Grandin 1995), I thought everybody on the autism/Asperger spectrum was a visual thinker. People with autism and Asperger's are specialist thinkers. They are good at one thing and bad at other things. From both books and interviews, I have concluded that there are three principal types of specialist thinking.

1. Photo-realistic visual thinkers--such as I. All my thoughts are in photo-realistic pictures (Grandin & Johnson 2005). My area of weakness is in algebra because there is no way to visualize it. Visual thinkers can do geometry and trigonometry, but not algebra. For my work, visual thinking is very important. I can see everything in my head and then draw it on paper. Figures 1 and 2 show two of my drawings, done by hand, of livestock handling facilities. They date from the mid-1980s when I did much of my best work.

2. Pattern thinking--music and math mind. This is a more abstract form of visual thinking. Thoughts are in patterns instead of photo-realistic pictures. Pattern thinkers see patterns and relationships between numbers. Some of the best descriptions are in Daniel Tammet's book Born on a Blue Day (Tammet 2006) and in Jerry Newport's book Mozart and the Whale (Newport et al. 2007) The weak area in pattern thinkers is usually reading and writing composition.

3. Word-fact thinkers. These individuals have a huge memory for verbal facts on all kinds of things such as film stars and sporting events. They are often poor at drawing and other visual thinking skills.

AshTrees
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26 Oct 2013, 1:24 am

I'm a dyslexic NT.
I used to think mainly in pictures. But, as an adult it has become about half and half.

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26 Oct 2013, 3:26 am

Quote:

Aspies must think by translating words into images / patterns and back into words. Words alone are not enough.

For me, that's not quite correct on a couple of points, although it does express the essence of it fairly well.
Firstly. my thoughts aren't even in images: any sensory modality is a translation. Words are a major translation.

Secondly, I don't need to translate my thoughts into words to think. I need to do it to COMMUNICATE.

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26 Oct 2013, 5:24 am

JSBACHlover wrote:

Main difference between aspies and NT's = Aspies have a relatively low emotional intelligence, and relatively high IQ, while both kinds of intelligence is often more average for NT's.

What does this mean? This means NT's use their emotional intelligence a lot more than aspies, which manifests in thinking in humans instead of theories/things/objects. Basically they think more socially, whereas aspies tend to use their relatively high IQs through thinking logically/rationally. Unfortunately, thinking socially has got little to do with thinking logically/rationally, hence all the trouble with getting along.

Solo_Operator
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26 Oct 2013, 6:28 am

Sounds right.
I've had women look at me as I form a response. They say I'm trying to lie or make stuff up, when it just takes me time to form a response, and the imagery flipping back and forth into words, when I think mostly in images, makes sense.
Good summary.

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JSBACHlover
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26 Oct 2013, 8:58 am

I guess having our own inner language, and the difficulty of communicating it to others, is all part of the Aspie package.

I do well socially when I recite scripts: "Yes, it is a beautiful day!" "How are you?" "I'm so sorry." "Oh, yes, he's a fine person." "I had a great time, too, thanks." But when I have to go any deeper I'm at a loss, and so I end up talking about some subject tangentially related to the situation, and then I could go on and on. So I also remember to stop and let the other person respond. It's a lot of work.

BTW I started this thread so that we could each get a sense of where we all lie on the spectrum. So far I'm finding your input fascinating.

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26 Oct 2013, 1:26 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:

This could plugin with the visual spatial learner. They usually think bigger picture at first and don't start off with the details at first like the normal learners would.

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26 Oct 2013, 1:45 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS60fIN8rik[/youtube]

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bumble
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26 Oct 2013, 2:00 pm

This may sound weird but I don't really know which is my predominant way of thinking. I just use whatever way of thinking I seem to need at the time (visual/images, words, music/sound, sensation etc).

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26 Oct 2013, 4:35 pm

bumble wrote:

If it is weird count me in as another weirdo because that is how I feel.

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29 Oct 2013, 6:36 am

I was looking at those three types and I didn't really identify with any of them...

I think maybe I'm mostly a "kinesthetic" thinker. And not just because I do things without thinking! Moving around helps me form ideas. Also, I almost always discover more while engaging in the process of doing. Like, I might not want to write, or talk, make music or whatever but once I get started...! :oops:

Maybe there is a better term?

I don't totally buy into it, but some zen/buddhist thinking about mindfulness + being fully engaged in the present moment has been helpful in turning my lack of thinking into less of a bad thing.

I like yoga too for the same type of benefits. I think the spacial and body awareness I gained from yoga even carried over a little bit to an awareness of other people and the mental states they express in how they carry their bodies.

realityIs wrote:

Well I suspect that whoever started writing down Chinese probably had Aspergers.

Joke, I know, but it's related to hangul which is pretty interesting because it's characters are based on mouth shapes. It is a much more literal translation! :wink:

Chinese is interesting because modulating the pitch of your voice is explicitly defined. You can't "use" Chinese without doing so.

Compared to English, tons gets inferred from your pitch, but you're supposed to figure it out on your own. And English has Latin roots, whose words are very often metaphor based!

I dunno language is pretty strange stuff. I like william burroughs language is a virus theory.

Oh, and I'm not really one to separate people into groups like NT or ASD. In historical examples it doesn't often end (or start!) well.

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29 Oct 2013, 6:51 am

For me it's images into words.

For NTs: I imagine it's a bit like how the adults speak in the Charlie Brown cartoons.

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29 Oct 2013, 7:14 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

bumble wrote:

If it is weird count me in as another weirdo because that is how I feel.

To me this sounds like you think like me. Your thoughts already take shape in their own system, them you find the appropriate expressive form to translate them to.

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