The difference between genuine social skills and faking NT

Post Reply New Topic

It's also fake when you dread having to do it beforehand, then overanalyze having done it afterwards. Everyone else just does it.

Before I came to live with my autistic family, I used to be obsessed with "the real me". As if every roaring disapproval, twitching anxiety or fearful jerk were some how the essence of myself. As if not expressing these things and "faking it" would some how ruin my core being. What I have come to understand is that the negative side of the spectrum, the fear and anxiety, the inability to cope with unscripted change, are not what makes me a sentient being. They are challenges and certainly shape my world view, but they aren't me. They're like hair. I can dye my hair blonde and shave half of it off, and it will still be hair that is mine. I'm just changing it's shape. Using our logical brains to fill in the gaps is just like cutting your hair. It doesn't fundamentally change your make up, your atoms and molecules, it just makes it look different. This isn't "faking" any more than dying my hair blonde is pretending I was born a blonde. And just like dying my hair, eventually my roots will show. And this is fine, because I'm not pretending to be a blonde from birth. I'm wearing blonde because I like it, or it makes my life easier.
NT people, and media, focus a lot on "fakeness" and what it means to be a genuine person. They aren't talking about us. They really aren't. They are talking about themselves. They dream of a world where they don't have to "play nice" because every ones insides are all ready nice and it takes no work to make society function well. Where every one will accommodate their specialsnowflakeness with out effort or friction. This isn't feasible, but they can dream with violin crescendo's and credits rolling about it. That's part of how entertainment works.
I don't worry about being fake or not, because there are so many fake things NT society believes in to make itself happy. Why should I deny myself, or any one else, that same basic premies? Yelling at the person next to me for standing to close will make them back off, but it will also scare every one else on the train with me. No one likes standing close, but we fake it because being scared in an enclosed space is bad for every one.
So you practice keeping a calm face. You focus on breathing and turning your brain to other things and eventually you can ride a train with out having to focus on not screaming. You are still expending energy on those coping things, but you've faked it until you made it. And the ride isn't fun or pleasant, but it isn't world ending either. You've expanded what you can do with your life and are now flexible enough to travel. At least to the places you need to go. And while it isn't perfect, it's good enough. And at the end of the day that's all we can ask of ourselves and others. Good enough so I can keep living and finding ways to function happily with in the greater world.

I would say: a lot.

If one is possessed of innate pack mentality, then social skills come easy; they are "innate". Lacking that innate quality, social skills are always having to be learnt and relearnt.


When someone says "good morning" to me, my first thought is to wonder what time it is, my second is to wonder if I'm having a good morning. Finally I realise that "good morning" is a meaningless social construct by which time i've lost all ability to give a spontaneous and socially appropriate response.
I'm slowly training myself to have c+p responses to meaningless social constructs but it's not "innate".

In the UK "how are you" is frequently used for "hello". I find this difficult.
Thankfully the UK does not use the american "have a nice day" - meaning "good-bye"...

How is that different from any other language? Under the American rules of greetings, you say "great, how 'bout you?" when asked "How are you doing?". It's like me responding to your post.

"innate pack behavior" /= language rules

Usually when you use the term "fake" about somebody it means they don't say what they're really thinking a lot of the time. For example, they have a certain opinion about various subjects, but regularly claim to have a different one during conversations. Also obviously applies to those that go out of their way to lie constantly for other reasons.

Foreign languages, unless fluent, are learnt behaviours by definition. I have no problem replying "ca va bien", if a french person addresses me "ca va?"

In english, I ponder the meanings behind the words which leads to confusion. So I end up responding with poorly learnt c+p responses.

It might come easy for you to respond "great, how 'bout you?" when asked how you are. It doesn't come easy to me.

@AmoredChicken But many people, myself include, would say you were a fake blonde or bleach blonde. And people say "fake hair" all the time. Are you saying that Kim Kardashian does not have fake hair because she never said she was born with it? I'm sorry but your rationale is not convincing.

If it seems almost natural most times, but you fail at it when you are tired or stressed.

Let me use this analogy to describe the differences between how NT and AS people process social information. hopefully this will put things into perspective.

Imagine if you will, you're standing in front of the kitchen sink and you're getting ready to get a glass of water. Then you Proceed to get a glass of water. A real simple act to do isn't it. it probably took you about 6 seconds to complete that act. RIGHT? I mean after all. What is so hard about having a glass of water. Let's break it down into the individual steps. You reach over with your hand and pick up the glass and place the glass directly under the faucet and with your other hand you turn the water on to fill the glass then you turn the water off and then you bring the glass up to your mouth and then proceed to drink the water. After you're done. You put the class down. Now I could describe those steps and much more detail but I think you would soon find that rather boring so I am doing to take things a step further, Waaaaay further. Did you know that to perform that seemingly simple 6 second act of getting a glass of water. Your brain had to process over 11,000 motor/sensory messages, ELEVEN THOUSAND!! Over 500 nerve endings and over 50 individual muscles where all needed and it all had to work together just like a well choreographed ballet, all to perform that seemingly simple act of getting a glass of water. This analogy describes how efficiently NT's are able to "unconsciously" process social information. Now let describe how efficient AS people "consciously" process social information since the unconscious method is not an option. Now imagine performing that same act of getting a glass of water only this time. You have to consciously think about what muscles you need to use and the movement of each and every individual muscle you will need to perform that act. More then likely. You will only be able to move one muscle at a time and your arms and hand will move like a robot or someone with MS. That once seemingly simple 6 second act will now take you over 15 minutes to complete. When you go to reach for the glass. You will more than likely bump into it and tip it over and once you got the glass in your hand. You will more then likely drop it and once you get it under the faucet and turn the water. You more then likely won't have the glass directly under the faucet and will have to move the glass again and you may need to move it multiple time to hit the target like adding strokes in a golf game. And once you finally hit the target and the glass starts to fill with water. You will soon find yourself dropping the glass because you can't respond quickly enough to increase gripping pressure on the glass to compensate for the steady weight increase as the glass fills with water. Any once you get pass that step and go to drink of the water. You find yourself bumping the rim of the glass in your face and splashing the water all over tour face and down you shirt. And when you finally go to set the glass down after your done. You might find yourself chucking it across the room instead.

In my opinion: everything.

What makes people enjoy "common" social interaction is their pack mentality. The effect on social behaviour of a lack of pack mentality is basically what is considered weird about individuals with Aspergers Syndrome.




I would say, no.

The core of pack mentality is a pack hierarchy, which consists of dominance and submission among the pack members.

Saying "good morning" is a neutral statement in the sense that you are not trying to make anyone submissive or dominating in relation to you (all depending on how you say it of course, but assuming it is said in a neutral well intended/polite voice).

As soon as you act or say something that reflects your dominance or submission to someone else, you are expressing pack mentality. That is why people with AS may find formal communication comfortable - because you avoid the pack mentality as much as possible.

I think the girl in this video explains it a little differently.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=165TJeop7D4[/youtube]

I didn't figure that out about small talk until I was in my late 20's. I still think most people are idiots though.

+1

I think I got the impression that there might be a difference from the fact that a lot of people talk about learning social skills like it's a form of self-improvement, whereas I feel like most of the skills I've learned do nothing more than make me appear normal.

I think the explanation in the video is very good. I liked the way the narrator explained that she tries hard out of respect for other people. She is showing the cognitive empathy I know well, while still not feeling the affective empathy that would have made participation natural.

I like the way the Sims helped to make the impact of this kind of socializing clear.

I think this clip shows the beauty and complexity of autistic humanity well. Her intelligence is powerful enough to allow her to correct the wrong ideas that she had formed about others (there's nothing interesting going on in their heads) based on her perceptual processing deficit.

I dislike the "pack" metaphor becuase it tends to replace a nuanced analysis of very complicated human behavior with an oversimplified model of canine behavior. Rather than the compassionate involvement with the humanity of others shown by the girl I the video, a focus on the pack model will tend to result in socially incompetent displays of aggressive or submissive behavior. I don't think this will be very helpful to either the person using th model or the communities they interact with.

Sorry for the double post. I really wanted to add this thought while it's fresh in my mind:

But that's a lot!

If you come to understand that packed into that "appearing normal" is showing care for others and creating or strengthening relationships with them, then you will see that making the gestures goes beyond appearances and has real benefit for you and for them.

The positive impact of those small bits of relationship building are the self improvement this stuff yields.

It can be a little frustrating that even when you have practiced the basic stuff very well, deepening relationships or knowing when to trust people can be very hard, but you are personal better off (and contributing more to your community) if you develop and practice these social skills.