AS people = Beta males/females?

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Exactly. Even with my previous post in this thread, I don't truly believe in the notion. But I get offended at how people say how low we are socially, and we can't work our way up any hierarchy. Whether any notion exists or not.

I thought it was the omega on the bottom. most of the first third and this last third of my life I have definitely been considered omega. The middle , not at all. I actually was quite popular during that one period of my life. But I was not an alpha. I am repulsed by people with such an all consuming thirst for power.

So let me get this straight...you are bothered because "alpha males" whose behavior and values you abhor, might look down on you due to your lack of place in a heirarchy the very existence of which is anathema to you? Why in the world would you be upset at being a failure at a system you wholeheartedly believe is wrong?

are friendship groups really built up on hierarchy's and rules?

as I see it, a friend group typically does have 1 or 2 more dominant personalities that might dominate conversations, but apart from that you have people that you get along with better than others in the group and you talk and do things with them. I don't see it as being more than that, I generally just go with the flow in a group unless I have some personal objection with something, e.g. smoking, then I just don't get involved.

unless I feel strongly about it I also ignore arguments that pop up in a friend group.

is it really more complicated?

in general I don't believe there is a social hierarchy. you have a job, have people you may or may not get on with, maybe have some close friends but its not vital, and then you have family.

what is this social hierarchy? we are not in the Victorian times

That's a very good point.

But being the solitary human that I am, I still have to face and deal with this social hierarchy when it comes to:

1. - Jobs
2. - Dating

both of which are substantial for a good life (for me personally).

So it is important for me to know how to deal with this system, even though I loathe it like the plague. In todays society I cannot be independent without being involved in this social mess, it is quite frustrating, but I cannot change it.

I also cannot look past this social system dating-wise, If I chose to look past it I would come to look like a naiive fool. It is impossible to remove, all that happens when you try to ignore it is that you lower yourself in the hierarchy, and individuals who would normally be considered even lower-ranking than you in this system suddenly seem to believe they should take a shot at you getting together, because you all of a sudden actually seem to fit because of your too kind attitude.

The more you claim people are equal, the more you will drop in social status! This will affect your chances in dating- and career-life, so to counter that you "should" adopt the attitude that some people definitely are more valuable than others, i.e. the social hierarchy system is true, real and as it should be. It bothers the hell out of me.

Btw.: I did not make any distinction between "Beta" and "Gamma", by "Beta" I meant low-ranking.

Last edited by qawer on 01 Feb 2014, 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

I reject the hierarchy. I treat people the same regardless of social status. Some people dislike me, but if they dislike me because I am disabled, I do not think much of them or their opinions. Other people like me, but I do not think that makes me dominant; nor would I want people to consider me dominant.

It would just take more brain space than I have to always be remembering everyone's social level, or even to really be aware of it, at least when it's more subtle than college president vs. college custodian. And I've never cared to learn how to become aware of it, because it is not something I want to reinforce.

When people think of me as inferior for being autistic, I think of them as prejudiced, and their opinion of me gets chucked into the "irrelevant" pile.

I reject it emotionally, because that is how I feel about it.

But logically I see that if I reject it I lower my chances immensely in the job market, and when it comes to dating.

Well, the dating part is more of a personal choice, but it is really hard to be around people in a job when you reject it. Almost impossible it seems.

Everytime I have tried to reject it, people immediately smell the weakness, and they attempt to use it to their own best. NTs can smell it from miles away.


I cannot see how this issue can be solved satisfactory.

I'm not very fond of terms like alpha and beta because they oversimplify things and I associate them with PUA rhetoric, but there definitely is a social pecking order that is based on good looks, attitude and proper social behavior rather than socio-economic status or intellectual abilities. And I'm afraid that aspies are more likely than others to find themselves at the bottom of this pecking order and get cast in the role of the pariah.

Case in point: I was quite successful in my third and last job because it catered to my interests and I really applied myself. Several pay raises, increasingly more responsibility, employer-financed training courses etc. But somehow, I was still the odd one out and the butt end of every joke. Everyone seemed to agree that it was perfectly ok to make fun of me behind my back and be condescending to my face, even the epitome of a village idiot who barely had enough brain cells to operate the trash compactor in the warehouse downstairs. He had the intellect of a six-year-old, but he knew when to nod and smile, when to say "oh no" and when to laugh about some stupid joke. Or about me, for that matter. So he was accepted as part of the gang that formed around the sole purpose of ridiculing the socially inept weirdo who out-earned 80% of them and was still lower than dirt in the social workplace hierarchy.

This experience taught me that it doesn't matter how much you try to contribute to society, nor does it matter how intelligent and educated you are. When people see you as a freak and pariah because you don't greet them with the fakest of smiles and utter drivel like "Oh, what weather we're having! Rarely has it been so weathery at this time of the year! How are your wife's hemorrhoids doing? And isn't that weirdo over there a total tool?", you'll never earn their acceptance or approval. Unless you're rich enough to simply buy it I suppose.

Last edited by Solitudinarian on 01 Feb 2014, 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hmmm... it's not something I pay attention to. As far as I know, I'm on the outside looking in and don't identify with terms such as "beta" and "alpha". I do my own thing, I go my own way and it works for me.

So you are bothered by the idea that low-status women will try to hit on you if you aren't an alpha? Isn't that a little hypocritical?

I don't care if anyone considers me a failure or a loser, because I realize that I'm a more intellectual and more decent person than pretty much everyone who would think that. Not to mention that I'm wealthier than most people, not that that has anything to do with me being a better person. American society is so messed up that being an outcast is actually a boost to my self-esteem. I'm in Massachusetts though, so things are different here from average American society. I'm happy to be who I am, and I wouldn't give that up to be higher on the social hierarchy.

Rejecting the hierarchy doesn't mean that prejudice suddenly disappears. You're still going to be mistreated by people who think they are better than you. But they're wrong; they're not better than you. Sometimes, in order to do the right thing, you have to pay a price--like the drawbacks of refusing to play their game and toady to the people who think they are worth more than others. Sometimes that means you end up mistreated. It's worth it because it means you followed your conscience.

Regarding dating: When you're trying to find someone to love, you really don't want someone who buys into the hierarchy, do you? You want to find someone that you can see eye-to-eye with, team up with. It narrows your dating pool, sure--but you wouldn't be happy with someone who thought some people were more valuable than others.

Lets just not date and avoid all that confusion.

Alphas are often against the greater good and are merely a remnant of an archaic tribal society.

I think it's important to realize that our instincts may be geared towards a more civilized form of society, contrary to our more tribal nt cousins.

Social ranking comes along with a large amount of primate behavior that we often lack. Our honesty, our unwillingness to go along with the tribe, our individualistic nature(pro democractic) , our detachment from gender roles, and gravitation towards objective terms( the truth over hype) seems to suggest we really do have a less tribal attitude.

I think our biggest problem is that we've been conditioned to be submissive to a tribal society. I think its definitely time to acknowledge that time is on our side. Just looking at the anti bullying campaigns, harrasment law etc, and it's clear that things will only improve.