Will Diets Helped My Overall Being?

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If there is a difference in terms of biological classification, I don't know the criteria.

Nutrition wise the main difference is the protein content. Grain (including wheat, barley, rye and also corn and oats) contain gluten (ie gliadin, secalin, hordein) This can be an irritant to the digestive tract even if one does not have celiac disease. They can contribute to chronic inflammation which recent studies suggest is the underlying cause of many of the diseases of civilisation (metabolic syndrome for example including diabetes, cardiovascular disease and high blood pressure) and not substances such as saturated fats (unfairly villanised).

The studies blaming saturated fats were discredited some time ago.

Grains are also a high carbohydrate food so you basically end up eating a lot of calories with very little nutrition...something that is not advisable in a sedentary world plagued by obesity.

No one needs grains...there is nothing nutrition wise in grains that you cannot get elsewhere. It is simply NOT an essential food group unlike meat for example (or other animal produce) needed for the vitamin B12 content.

However, if you really must waste good calories on low nutrient foods with inflammatory properties that irritate your digestive tract then you can prepare them in the traditional way (on the paleo diet) to remove many of the toxins and pytates they contain (such as by soaking or fermentation). The food industry does not do this and they are prepared improperly compared to the way our ancestors used to consume them if they did form a MINOR (very minor compared today) part of their diet.

Personally I stay away from them. They are bad for me, that much I know for sure.

There may be individuals who are adapted to them, but the human body has been slower to adapt to grains than dairy.

PS Celiac disease and None celiac intolerance as well as wheat allergy are becoming increasingly problematic in society today.

Also studies have suggested that many people diagnosed with IBS actually have celiac disease but are misdiagnosed by mistake.

Furthers studies suggest that the symptoms of schizophrenia in some individuals were improved by a gluten free diet.

Celiacs can also react to oats and corn as well as the three main gluten grains wheat, barley and rye.

Gluten is nasty.

If you must eat some grain opt for white rice. That one is quite gentle and most people don't have an issue with it. Also, eaten cold it provides resistant starch for your gut microbes.....they convert it into healthy substances.

I would say to generally improve your diet first, fresh food, low or no processed grains and see how you feel. There are more and more refinements available; organic food, "Blood Type diet", food allergy testing if you find you don't gain enough energy or have digestive problems.

I personally need to follow a Type O (paleo-ish diet for blood type O), mostly organic and low carb diet, or I feel sluggish and foggy and have muscle pain. Following this diet along with a little exercise, I feel much less autistic.

You will need to do some trial and error because everybody's different.

I love the blood type diet. It really works for me. And they have great supps too.

While I can agree with your general attitude here I think some of your statements are not true. I don't follow the Paleo diet or any other diet apart from my own common sense diet. I think calling a concept that has elements based on reasonable assumptions "junk" is a bit low, it's not a reason to avoid trying something if it appeals and the paleo diet has obviously improved the lives of some people here. That fact that it has been developed as a fashionable thing for hip people which is a kind of "trick" is the problem, I agree with you there.

In your link there is a statement by the author regarding lactose intolerance which is completely inaccurate. The enzyme lactase is switched off in animals after weaning as it is no longer necessary, it continues being switched on in humans because dairy is included in the diet. This is not an evolutionary adaptation and to use it as such immediately raises doubts about this work.

If given the choice between the paleo diet and anything marketed as food in the western world, as in being forced to eat what sells the most, then I'll be a caveman for the rest of my life and be happy with it too. There are so many poor production methods, extended preservative techniques and acceptable additives included with processed food that education is key. People should know what they are eating, otherwise the future population just may end up too stupid to care, maybe they already are.

If you consider each human body to be an ecosystem, we are all slightly different and each respond differently to what we eat, and what may be suitable for one is not for all.

Last edited by neilson_wheels on 09 Apr 2014, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Glad to read that you have found a solution to your previous health problems. I just wanted to highlight that care needs to taken with cooling and storing cooked rice, you may already know this but it does not seem to be common knowledge.

Cooked rice should be cooled quickly, not left at room temperature, not kept for too long and not stored damped. There is a common bacteria present that can survive the cooking process and then multiply rapidly to produce severe food poisoning.

Please do your own research if you need any more information.

It isn't based on reasonable assumptions though. Firstly, the assumption that "we ate X", which is often inaccurate; secondly, the "therefore, X is the best diet we can eat".

That is an evolutionary adaptation... it is a change over time by a population in order to adapt to changing conditions. I really don't see why you find that troublesome, could you maybe explain why you don't think that is evolution?

Those two things are not equivalent.
Anything that is legally food can be consumed in moderation.

It is most likely the one we are most adapted to. Diet varied depending on location but it really did not consist of high fructose corn syrup, MSG, preservatives, E numbers, trans fatty acids from hydrogenated oils, processed food with artificial supplements because they are nutritionally poor without them, processed meats full of nasty additives, cereals laden with sugar and other bakery items laden with sugar and artificial sweeteners.

I don't think you understand the basic principle of the paleo diet which is to eat whole unprocessed foods.

And I still think you are missing the point that hunter gatherer tribes that eat a traditional diet do not have problems such as diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. Feed them a western diet however full of processed s**t and they all started getting sick.

"White man food make us sick" is what one tribe member was supposedly quoted as saying (I am trying to track down where it came from, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least) and another tribe was reported to burst in to laughter at the bizarre notion that someone would need to jog around a park just to keep fit. They were visiting to attend a convention of some kind (I can look it up) and bust a gut when they saw the joggers in the park on the way there.

They don't need to jog around a park to look after their fitness levels...their activity level and traditional diet does that for them.

I don't know what version of the paleo diet you are talking about (some commercial diet fad I expect) but the version I consume is whole food based and includes being physically active...something our society could use more of.

By whole food I mean: Meats such as venison, quail, pheasant, chicken, pork, grass fed beef, lamb and other game.
Fish: wild salmon, trout, sardines, mackerel etc
Seafood: crab, prawns, mussels and so on
All fruits
All vegetables
All nuts except peanuts as they are a legume (and give me lock jaw anyway so I avoid them)
Seeds (but I am not fond of them, so not very often)
Healthy fats (saturated, monounsaturated, omega fats particularly 3)
Limited dairy (otherwise I get wind, bloating and mild diarrhea...I think my lactase gene forgot to stay switched on)
Small amounts of honey once in a while as a treat

Some include oats, buckwheat, rice and other traditionally prepared grains if they are ok with gluten and want to bother to prepare them.

I am not sure encourage people to eat processed junk food instead of the above is all that sensible. Food might well be food but not all food is of equal quality and may not even be good for the human body

Oh and isotope studies of paleolithic remains can verify what we ate. As can archaeological finds discovered at various settlement sites.

Such studies show that our diets were often rich in meats such a deer or wild horse and vegetation and nuts if you lived in the right sort of climate where vegetation was available. Higher altitude settlements and areas where vegetation was sparse tended to have a more meat based diet.

One group were found to have a weakness for acorns...they had an unusually high level of tooth decay for paleo people, a level not repeated until the rise of the grain based diet which caused vitamin deficiencies (and the diseases that are caused by them) and gave everyone tooth rot.

There are articles on the web somewhere.

As the OP talks about eating lots of processed food I feel that is the relevant part to compare with the concept of the paleo diet which you called "junk". It is safe to assume that in the past, humans did not eat processed food which is the majority of food sold in the western world now, definitely the cheapest and often designed to over stimulate. As I said above I'm not a follower of the paleo diet, so I feel it's best to read the whole post in context, not just pick the bits you want to argue with.


I would see it as a selective mutation personally, the fact that dairy farming began before the mutation occurred and that so many people have issues with consuming dairy products illustrate that. Not all caucasian people can consume dairy, many more are experiencing an increase in problems, not less, and if they stop then the enzyme production usually still switches off later in life and cannot be re-started. It seems that many people accept that loose bowel movements and excess flatulence as just normal rather than a sign that their diet could be improved.

Combined with how ineffective it is to raise dairy herds, as a use of resources, then it is hardly evolved behaviour to continue eating unsuitable items due to there being an industry to maintain.


So I can eat sugar loaded cereal, reconstituted flavoured meat, stringy cheese and jammy dodgers, all in moderation, and expect to be reasonably healthy?

Products that have been tested and certified as safe for most people to eat will still be toxic to some, in a standard natural distribution, the OP may or may not be one of those people.

As a species we can survive on any old crap, but again, the OP was asking if a diet change could improve their quality of life, therefore I feel your comment above is not at all helpful or relevant in the context of this thread.

No, we have continued evolving as our diet has changed. We were never "perfectly adapted".

True. Trans fats are something that should always be avoided. Demonising E numbers is really silly though. I know I couldn't live without E948, and good luck avoiding E330 next time you eat an orange. In fact, an E number just means something has been approved for use as a food additive in the EU - i.e. it is safe to eat in some circumstances!


Hunter gatherer tribes tend to die before those things can become an issue.

And again, you are missing the point. Those societies have not evolved to deal with our modern diet. We have. That's why it is inappropriate to demonise milk.

I don't really understand the relevance of jogging around the park. If you work in an office, you aren't constantly active, so you need some "artificial" exercise to stay healthy.

Whilst this sounds like an appropriate diet for you if you are a coeliac and lactose intolerant, I don't think demonising grains, legumes and dairy is rational.
Legumes are an important source of protein that need to become a bigger part of our diet (they are much more efficient, and lower in fat, than meat). Dairy is an important source of calcium and potassium, and is often fortified with Vitamin D - it also reduces the risk of osteoporosis, CVD and type 2 diabetes. Grains are a good source of carbohydrate and fibre, as well as B vitamins, Vitamin E, and minerals like iron, magnesium and selenium. This particularly applies to whole grains, though I must admit I prefer non-whole grains...


Yes, this is true (though smaller animals will usually have been eaten rather than deer, and they would have eaten bone marrow and organs). However, as I linked earlier, people also had diets high in tubers, legumes and grains. Potatoes were a staple food in South America. Maize has long been consumed in central America.

However, nobody was eating broccoli or cauliflower, which humans have essentially invented. Pretty much all modern fruits and vegetables have been created by intensive selective breeding by humans, and are nothing like what Neolithic peoples ate. Modern red meats are also nothing like the cattle reared by the first farmers, and modern chicken is very different to jungle fowl.

The Miwok?

Chestnut oak acorns are supposed to be quite sweet (reasonably high in both sugar and fat), and their bread is very compact, but, like all acorns, they're poisonous. They contain tannins, which kill most animals (pigs are a notable exception, as are grey squirrels). Humans can only eat them if they are very extensively washed so the tannins can leach out.

Well, the concept IS junk.

I deliberately avoided replying to every point made by bumble (the vast majority of them wrong, most dangerously the idea that saturated fat is fine and humans are "supposed" to eat lots of red meat, as well as the demonisation of grains and the general attempts to make dieting more confusing than it needs to be). I don't want to confuse the issue further if it can be avoided, I just want to point out that it is NOT a sensible basis for a diet (though in fairness, there are worse e.g. Cabbage Soup, Atkins, 5:2).

If we want to define the paleo diet as "not eating lots of processed foods", then fine. I just think that's a far cry from eating a diet "based on the diet were are adapated (sic) to via our evolution as a species". I mean, that's a nonsensical idea, because different people are adapted to different diets. The obvious examples are New World tribes which have less tolerance for alcohol than Old World peoples. We've also discussed lactose.


I would see it as a selective mutation personally,[/quote]
That is evolution, regardless of what you "personally" think.

Yes, as long as your diet is balanced overall. There's nothing wrong with one or two reasonably sized treats a day as part of a balanced diet.

That was one of my initial "basic rules" - cut out foods you cannot eat due to medical conditions (such as coeliac, IBS, allergies, or lactose intolerance) and redo your diet around that.

Firstly, concepts and practices are not necessarily the same thing.

I'll just reiterate my opinions for you:


I'm not going to comment on the other issues you have mentioned if you can't be bothered to read the whole post.



Sorry still not convinced.

Lactose intolerance hotspots



Funny that, me too.

Excuse my rant but I said 'most' adpated to not 'perfectly' adapted to. There be a difference.

I get annoyed at this because people always misread what I write and what the hell is the worlds obsession with perfect? Who said anything about perfect. Nothing personal, I am tetchy today.

I lost my place with the quotes.

My rant stands

My points were:

I didn't demonise dairy, I said some peeps still consume it.
Legumes do not provide protein efficiently for the human body. The proteins in vegetables are incomplete and are not well absorbed by the body. You do not get the same quality or protein as you do from meat which is complete and easily absorbed.

A lot of hunter gatherer tribe members lived to the same age or older than us and in contemporary tribes they most certainly live to the same age as us.

As to the jogging that was my point...our lifestyles are artificial and far too sedentary. Like caged animals in a zoo being let out for exercise after being fed a bowl of cheap grain based crud.

Fat is good for you (especially omega 3 which can be found in certain red meats...not a lot of people know that) and is a necessary part of the diet. Low fat diets are actually damaging to a persons health, not beneficial.

True about dairy and vitamin but you can also get vitamin D by going out side or taking a supplement if you live in an area where there is not much sun.

All those vitamins you listed for grains...found in higher quantities in vegetables, fruit, fish, nuts and meat. The high level of phytates in grains means that most of the nutrients contained in them are not bioavailable to us so the grain might contain them but we don't absorb much of them.

Yes they would have eaten bone marrow and brain and organs but no they ate deer frequently. It made up a substantial part of their diet. When you have a tribe to feed...it makes sense to go for the bigger prey.

As to the rest of it you are very wrong. Please research recent studies on saturated fats. Omega 6 and omega 3 ratio and learn to read.

I never said humans were meant to eat lots of red meat but it did form a substantial part of their diet as did fruits, vegetables, seafood and fish in some areas and to a lesser degree nuts and seeds.

Do i have to spend all day going through reading comprehension with you?

Its not confusing it is really really simple...you eat whole unprocessed foods....

Meat, poultry, fish, seafood, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds.

Avoid processed foods aisle.

Good luck in finding many grain based food in the unprocessed foods section and as I said you can eat them if they are prepared properly (traditionally not by the food processing industry but by yourself at home) and you are ok with them.

As to legumes I did say I am not sure on the science (other than the protein thing), I just don't like many of them so don't bother as I prefer leafy greens and root veg.

You need to drop the campaign against saturated fat. Next you will be saying it causes obesity too.

For f**k sake is all i can say.

No one said there is ONE true paleo diet.

There are different versions of teh diet because we are aware that our ancestors ate differently depending on where they lived.

*smacks my head repeatedly on my imaginary desk..not on a real one, that would hurt*

You are slamming a diet that has helped many people and could help many others in favour of keeping people sick by feeding them low nutrition crap marketed by a food industry that just wants to make a profit.

Silly man

And why have you deliberately tried not to reply to my points?

What is this, no one speak to bumble weak or something? Why are people here being so nasty to me, does anyone have the balls to explain?

Slam the diet I don't really care but I would advise people to do their own research please, epsecially if you have chronic health or digestive issues. Don't take my word for it or the walrus, there are a collection of books available as well as web sites.