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How do you know when it all adds up to autism?

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Rocket123
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08 Jun 2014, 11:27 am

dianthus wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Social cognition problems observed by self or others should be the most major part of the perceived differences between self and others for the cause of the problems to be autism.

So far, the list of disorders don't add up to autism.


That's the missing puzzle piece for me. I know that I have social impairments, but I don't know if I have social cognition impairments.


I am a bit unclear what a social cognition impairment is. How would one recognize it? Is it different than a ?Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts??



dianthus
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08 Jun 2014, 11:41 am

I'm unclear about what it is too. And as far as my "list" goes I have no idea what kind of label to use to describe my social impairments. Like for instance I have problems recognizing people but I'm not sure whether or not I can literally describe that as faceblindness, as it seems more like a memory retrieval problem.

I think ADHD and SPD can both involve social impairments, but not necessarily cognitive social impairments. (?)

I've documented my various traits and symptoms here in hundreds of posts so I hope it is understood that the list I made in the OP is a shorthand version and is in no way intended to be a comprehensive list of my issues. I just don't know what kind of shorthand terminology to use to list my social deficits.



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08 Jun 2014, 1:03 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
dianthus wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Social cognition problems observed by self or others should be the most major part of the perceived differences between self and others for the cause of the problems to be autism.

So far, the list of disorders don't add up to autism.


That's the missing puzzle piece for me. I know that I have social impairments, but I don't know if I have social cognition impairments.


I am a bit unclear what a social cognition impairment is. How would one recognize it? Is it different than a ?Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts??


I think the deficits are thought to flow fem the cognitive impairments. Some cognitive functions that provide neurotypicals with the faculties of social perception and communication are deficient in autistics.

I think the main idea is that a ton of characteristics in common with autistics does not equal autism if the main problem isn't there or isn't better explained by something else.



daydreamer84
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08 Jun 2014, 1:15 pm

^
Which is why it's important to be assessed by a professional.



Toy_Soldier
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08 Jun 2014, 1:27 pm

When it no longer adds up to NT?

But seriously I imagine it depends on severity. The more severe, the more obvious it would likely be. When you have a lighter case it might be hard to tell.

If after a serious self examination using self-tests and study of the symptoms you are not sure then probably only a clinical evaluation by medical professionals would convince you either way.



btbnnyr
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08 Jun 2014, 6:22 pm

Social cognitive impairments are things like lack of theory of mind, like you don't spontaneously and automatically process what other people might be thinking during interaction. Or lack of joint attention, like you don't spontaneously and automatically attend to what other people are wanting you to attend to using non-verbal cues directing your attention there, but not telling you directly to look at XYZ. Basically, it's social things that NTs do automatically without thinking about them, but autistic people don't. From childhood, it is easy to tell, since autistic child might not seem to hear you if you call their name, since they may have no automatic response. Later, they might learn to respond on purpose, but perhaps with a delay. Autistic children who do respond to someone as quickly and automatically as NT children when their name is called have this neurotypical trait and probably have milder autism than children who don't respond.


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08 Jun 2014, 7:05 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Social cognitive impairments are things like lack of theory of mind, like you don't spontaneously and automatically process what other people might be thinking during interaction. Or lack of joint attention, like you don't spontaneously and automatically attend to what other people are wanting you to attend to using non-verbal cues directing your attention there, but not telling you directly to look at XYZ. Basically, it's social things that NTs do automatically without thinking about them, but autistic people don't. From childhood, it is easy to tell, since autistic child might not seem to hear you if you call their name, since they may have no automatic response. Later, they might learn to respond on purpose, but perhaps with a delay. Autistic children who do respond to someone as quickly and automatically as NT children when their name is called have this neurotypical trait and probably have milder autism than children who don't respond.


That is such a good explanation. I have wondered for years why they say autistic children frequently don't seem to hear their name being called. Also, when I was a child my mother constantly said "You always look the wrong way" when she was noting something in the environment. That would be explained by what you said regarding joint attention. You could write a pamphlet or book translating what the DSM and doctors are talking about. This is such useful information.


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08 Jun 2014, 7:18 pm

Visit a neurologist if you're worried, so you can certainly rule out Parkinsons/Epilepsy/brain tumors.



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08 Jun 2014, 9:46 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Social cognitive impairments are things like lack of theory of mind, like you don't spontaneously and automatically process what other people might be thinking during interaction. Or lack of joint attention, like you don't spontaneously and automatically attend to what other people are wanting you to attend to using non-verbal cues directing your attention there, but not telling you directly to look at XYZ. Basically, it's social things that NTs do automatically without thinking about them, but autistic people don't. From childhood, it is easy to tell, since autistic child might not seem to hear you if you call their name, since they may have no automatic response. Later, they might learn to respond on purpose, but perhaps with a delay. Autistic children who do respond to someone as quickly and automatically as NT children when their name is called have this neurotypical trait and probably have milder autism than children who don't respond.


Adamantium wrote:
I think the deficits are thought to flow fem the cognitive impairments. Some cognitive functions that provide neurotypicals with the faculties of social perception and communication are deficient in autistics.

I think the main idea is that a ton of characteristics in common with autistics does not equal autism if the main problem isn't there or isn't better explained by something else.


Thank you both. This makes sense.

I am not quite certain why, but I find a lot of terminology used to describe Aspergers (DSM-IV) and Aspergers (DSM-V) quite confusing. This, even after discussing some of these concepts (social/emotional reciprocity, spontaneous sharing) with my therapist (a Clinical Psychologist).



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08 Jun 2014, 10:44 pm

i was difficult to diagnose for Psychologist who didnt specialize in autism because i was so well adujusted, but a specialist noticed my Symptoms almost instantly. My ADHD, and OCD are more obvious, so thats all regular Psychologists saw, but once i got some testing done it was amazing how obvious it actually was.

for me it was that everything just fit so well,

i remember i had a Pysch who said " i dont think you have ASD, i think you have Social Communication Disorder, NVLD, ADHD, and OCD" which is a ridiculous diagnoses, but the testing pointed more to ASD


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dianthus
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09 Jun 2014, 8:57 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Social cognitive impairments are things like lack of theory of mind, like you don't spontaneously and automatically process what other people might be thinking during interaction. Or lack of joint attention, like you don't spontaneously and automatically attend to what other people are wanting you to attend to using non-verbal cues directing your attention there, but not telling you directly to look at XYZ. Basically, it's social things that NTs do automatically without thinking about them, but autistic people don't. From childhood, it is easy to tell, since autistic child might not seem to hear you if you call their name, since they may have no automatic response. Later, they might learn to respond on purpose, but perhaps with a delay. Autistic children who do respond to someone as quickly and automatically as NT children when their name is called have this neurotypical trait and probably have milder autism than children who don't respond.


Thank you for explaining. It seems to be more complicated to identify this in adulthood.

I frequently do not respond to people immediately either because I am not sure if they are talking to me or not, or because I do not understand what they said. But maybe this is more of a sensory problem than a social cognition deficit(?) I'm really not sure. There are also times when I intend to respond to people but I just can't seem to get my brain and mouth to work together to do it.