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Marybird
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16 Nov 2014, 12:46 pm

This attitude about boundaries and war seems to extend to extraterrestrial life as evidenced in movies like Star Wars and old science fiction movies.
Why on earth would aliens want to make war with earthlings to steal their resources, when the most amazing thing is discovering other conscious life forms in the universe and scientific knowledge.
Why must war permeate everything as if the only thing of interest or value to the human mind is competition and war.



dianthus
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16 Nov 2014, 2:55 pm

senecafox wrote:
Do you see humanity as "all one"?


I used to. But I've come to associate that strongly with new age, NWO brainwashing. I no longer want to see things that way. I even question the assumption that every individual who appears human is actually human, as it has been suggested for a long time that ETs are walking among us camouflaged as humans.

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Do you ever feel like you see everything differently than most people?


Yes definitely.

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Do you feel more like you belong to the human community than to your individual country?


No. I don't feel a sense of belonging to either one. I actually feel more of a sense of belonging to a country I've never even visited in this lifetime.

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Like you tend to think about the interests of all humans or humanity as a whole rather than just each country separately?


To some extent, yes I think of the interests of humanity as a whole. But I also think of the interests of different countries and cultures and local communities, and try to see how they fit together like pieces of a larger puzzle.

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Do you feel like each human being is another version of yourself...


In a metaphysical sense I do see it that way. But on a more human, personal level, no not really.

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...and you can't really understand the concept of fighting for your country by harming people from another country because you don't see what makes them matter less just because they're members of a different country?


I can definitely understand the concept. I understand what it feels like to want to fight for your own people, to stand up for the rights of your own people, to defend your own people and your own culture from harm or attack. I wouldn't view that as deciding that people from another culture matter less, I would view that as holding equal value for your own culture.

I believe everyone should have to right to preserve their own culture, their own language, their own currency, their own history, etc. Too much of the wrong kind of emphasis on "oneness" can erode that and make people vulnerable to losing their culture and their history.

I don't relate to wanting to go out and attack or conquer another country for the sake of land or resources or power...or for the sake of fearing people who are different or wanting to erase a culture or bring it under submission to another state. Not only in the sense of waging an actual war, but also in the sense of things like sending missionaries into foreign cultures to convert them to a religion and educate their children against their own culture.

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Because in your mind we're all the same... and countries are concepts created by society which hold no absolute truth or meaning... or is that just me?


No. I think we're all very different, and that's how it is supposed to be. Differences need to be respected and allowed to flourish. Maybe country borders, and even the most local community borders, have a deeper meaning that is not apparent on the surface.



auntblabby
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16 Nov 2014, 7:27 pm

I hope humanity realizes we are all in this thing together, before it's too late.



Transyl
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16 Nov 2014, 7:36 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I hope humanity realizes we are all in this thing together, before it's too late.

This is my hope too. :(



auntblabby
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16 Nov 2014, 7:38 pm

Transyl wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I hope humanity realizes we are all in this thing together, before it's too late.

This is my hope too. :(

in terms of humanity getting its act together, I'm not holding my breath in that regard. Image



ToughDiamond
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16 Nov 2014, 9:41 pm

Do you ever feel like you see everything differently than most people?

Not everything, but quite a lot of things.

Do you feel more like you belong to the human community than to your individual country? Like you tend to think about the interests of all humans or humanity as a whole rather than just each country separately?

Yes. The notion of "my country" falls completely flat on me. The notion of the "human community" arouses a faint glimmer of warmth in me.

Do you feel like each human being is another version of yourself


Broadly, yes, though I feel the versions can differ quite markedly on some respects.

and you can't really understand the concept of fighting for your country by harming people from another country because you don't see what makes them matter less just because they're members of a different country?

I can't, no. "My country" probably should be mine, but as things stand it seems to belong (though not rightfully) to the ruling elite, who I dislike. They would call it fighting for my country but in reality, if I did, I feel I'd be fighting for their interests. A lot would depend on the particular war, and it would often be hard to decide, because of the poor quality of the information about why the war should be waged. I might support a war to repel an invasion, though I'd consider advocating surrender if I thought the resulting new government would be an improvement. A foreign war might get my vote if I believed it would reduce a significant threat to the good aspects of my way of life from a foreign power, but I'd need good, externally-verified evidence of that, especially after Iraq and the WMD myth.

Because in your mind we're all the same... and countries are concepts created by society which hold no absolute truth or meaning... or is that just me?

Not all the same exactly, but in the sense that I think you mean, yes. And yes, for me there's something not quite right about the concept of "country" as a unified political entity. I accept that there are countries in some sense of the word, but I rather like the idea of abolishing the boundaries.........like a certain Beatle, I don't find it hard to imagine there aren't any, and I like to think that if there weren't, there'd be nothing to kill or die for. I also wonder whether it would also be necessary to get shut of religion, and political parties / persuasions, as these also sometimes appear to make for genocide, but I don't profess to know what the result of their abolition would be. I suspect that all those things do both harm and good, though offhand I can't see any obvious use for the nation state. Anybody?



olympiadis
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17 Nov 2014, 3:30 am

None of us has a country. Individuals are not the major problem.
It's the collective that is the problem.



untilwereturn
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17 Nov 2014, 10:11 am

senecafox wrote:
Do you ever feel like you see everything differently than most people? Do you feel more like you belong to the human community than to your individual country? Like you tend to think about the interests of all humans or humanity as a whole rather than just each country separately? Do you feel like each human being is another version of yourself and you can't really understand the concept of fighting for your country by harming people from another country because you don't see what makes them matter less just because they're members of a different country? Because in your mind we're all the same... and countries are concepts created by society which hold no absolute truth or meaning... or is that just me?


I'm so happy to see someone else articulate ideas that have separated me from most other people I've met. I can relate to so much of this: Sports and wars and nations and patriotism and all other forms of tribalism have never made sense to me. The same goes for race; I've ruffled a lot of feathers over the years by refusing to label myself as anything other than human. Identifying people as a member of a particular community simply by virtue of their physical features has never made sense to me. The only communities with which I've ever identified have been voluntary associations based on common interests, not accidents of geography or ethnicity.

I'm not sure about viewing other people as a version of myself, though. On one level, I get what you're saying. But like the name of this website, I've never felt like I really belonged anywhere. I remember doing a class exercise in elementary school where you had to decide what you'd want engraved on your tombstone. My answer was one that has stuck with me for years: "I was never one of them."



Adamantium
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17 Nov 2014, 10:39 am

For most of my life, I mistakenly thought that most people thought more or less like me. It was a slow process realizing how much they don't and that I might be the one whose pattern of thinking is odd. It was another person with autism at work who really brought this home to me when I said casually that I used to think everyone thought like me but now recognize that they don't. She agreed very emphatically... but then, she had recognized my autism and tried to tell me about it for years when I was not ready to hear it, so she heard what I was saying in that context.

But yes, I tend to think we all think alike, life keeps proving that this is not so and I am one of the ones who thinks in a different way.

I do feel like a member of my species rather than a family, regional, national, ethnic or racial group. I think such group thinking is ridiculous and dangerous. But then again, I know my thinking is weird. Maybe all those group chauvinists are right in someway that just doesn't make sense to me... or maybe their group identification process amounts to a cognitive impairment that blinds them to the obvious truth of our unity as a species.



kraftiekortie
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17 Nov 2014, 10:50 am

I feel like I'm an American because of the culture in which I was raised. It's imperfect, obviously--but much better than other national situationis.

I didn't really CARE, as a child, whether somebody thought differently from me; I didn't have the concept in my mind.

When I was, probably, in my 20's, the concept of "theory of mind," which is basically what this is, began to reveal itself to me.

I believe, autistic or not, whatever or not, that we're a member of the human race.

We, of alternative neurology, are not a separate species, and we shouldn't treat ourselves as being of a separate species.



geometrictunneling
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17 Nov 2014, 11:34 am

I think the idea of sports television, competitions, idols, hierarchy, social status, war, money, patriotism and fighting for your country is all just insanity.

To wonder if this is completely due to the autistic brain is an interesting thought, even if it is at least part of the equation, it is still interesting.



olympiadis
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17 Nov 2014, 4:42 pm

Most of these posts seem to point precisely to what I've tried to describe before as a fundamental difference in perception of reality, which is thinking primarily controlled by individual intelligence vs thinking primarily controlled by system intelligence, - the collective group-think.
All of those things like war and national boundaries are products of the collective.
Jung described this as the dehumanizing of our species.
We have been convinced that the collective takes precedence because statistical data show us that the value of one is nothing compared to millions.



Orangez
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17 Nov 2014, 5:03 pm

olympiadis wrote:
Most of these posts seem to point precisely to what I've tried to describe before as a fundamental difference in perception of reality, which is thinking primarily controlled by individual intelligence vs thinking primarily controlled by system intelligence, - the collective group-think.
All of those things like war and national boundaries are products of the collective.
Jung described this as the dehumanizing of our species.
We have been convinced that the collective takes precedence because statistical data show us that the value of one is nothing compared to millions.

It is because their propaganda is designed to work on normal people; thus, does not work properly for those on the spectrum . Even in therapy I find they try to argue that the whole is worth more than the individual without realizing what their logic truly means. That is why I suspect that most people on the spectrum, who haven't been convinced to delude themselves into the norm, fall towards the anarchist end of the political compass.



jbw
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17 Nov 2014, 5:50 pm

Orangez wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
Most of these posts seem to point precisely to what I've tried to describe before as a fundamental difference in perception of reality, which is thinking primarily controlled by individual intelligence vs thinking primarily controlled by system intelligence, - the collective group-think.
All of those things like war and national boundaries are products of the collective.
Jung described this as the dehumanizing of our species.
We have been convinced that the collective takes precedence because statistical data show us that the value of one is nothing compared to millions.

It is because their propaganda is designed to work on normal people; thus, does not work properly for those on the spectrum . Even in therapy I find they try to argue that the whole is worth more than the individual without realizing what their logic truly means. That is why I suspect that most people on the spectrum, who haven't been convinced to delude themselves into the norm, fall towards the anarchist end of the political compass.

This is consistent with my observations.

Typical humans are experts at self-deception and inducing delusions in others. This study is interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 141609.htm.

Our findings have implications for many types of social interactions but especially for those involving partner-choice (e.g. choosing mates, hiring people for jobs), suggesting that we may be rewarding overconfidence and penalizing underconfidence irrespective of an individual's capability. Furthermore, if overconfident individuals are more likely to be risk-prone then by promoting such individuals we may be creating institutions such as banks, trading floors and armies, that are also more vulnerable to risk. From our smallest interactions to the institutions we build, self-deception may play a profound role in shaping the world we inhabit.



kraftiekortie
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17 Nov 2014, 8:43 pm

I have quite a bit of "individually"--oriented intelligence---but I take the communal world into account.

I don't have a membership in the "hive-mind' club. My honey is of an individual nature.

Without the outer world complementing solipsism, we're doomed to extinction.



lostonearth35
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17 Nov 2014, 9:13 pm

I don't see myself as belonging to the human race at all. In fact sometimes I hate being reminded that I'm human. Human beings are too much like sheep, doing what the others do out of sheer mindlessness. Robots. Clones. ZOMBIES.