Inequality - who is the onus on?

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I believe how much effort one puts into a communicative event depends upon the individual communicative event--and one's motivation.

There are times when I must expend about 90% of the energy necessary to communicate something important--such as offering directions to a place to a non-English speaking person.

There are times when the other person must expend 90% of the effort--such as when I'm in Hungary and I want directions to somewhere--I don't speak Hungarian.

So... in that case, the missing 40% would be to just learn the damn language?

Learning the damn language would definitely help.

It would also help if autistics learn the "NT language" to a certain extent. I don't believe this would be "selling out" on the part of the autistic person.

There are NT's willing to teach us, especially if they are inspired in some way. Motivation is key.

Remember: With Temple Grandin, NT's had to expend at least some energy learning to communicate with her, and to adjust to her quirks. Fortunately, these NT's were inspired by Temple's ideas (i.e., ideas for inventions).

What we, as autistics, should do, is to inspire NT's with our unique ideas.

We can't lay back and let autism cause us to raise the white flag of surrender constantly.

I think it depends on the situation and the individuals involved.

But generally speaking people who are not disabled need to put forth more effort to understand people who are disabled. Not so much vice versa.

I can agree with all of this.

Though for me personally; I don't have much issues to communicate with NT's I think. Heck, I could even do that networking thing some people on the spectrum say is hard.

In a way, I think the way Grandin made NT's be open of her quirks is the same way I end up with "anyone". I might be weird, but I have a fair share of own perspectives on things. It makes me hard to collaborate with just because my mind operates differently, but if I manage to find that connection it's great.

However, I'm not sure how much of that is actually "just" AS. I'm convinced that personality plays part in that as well. Let's face it, you can't be friends with everybody, and ideas don't come across the correct way to everyone. I think that for some of us it just means the scope needs to be readjusted and narrower.

I never considered myself to be a broken link between AS and NT communication as such. I try to get along with people, period. Yet, every once in a while I can't help but entertain the notion that the people I got along with best were actually people on the spectrum (and that includes my friends and past romantic relationships). In that way I suppose I'm an acquired taste that perhaps appeals more to people on the spectrum than people not on the spectrum. And that might actually be part of personality and has little to do with AS.

I can totally get that sentiment about surrendering though. And I try my best on a daily basis to not raise that flag (and I don't think I have raised it thus far) The thing you can wonder though, are expectations by society in general a bit too demanding, not just for people on the spectrum, but people in general. Having people with some AS related issues be exposed to that does kinda create a problem on it's own. I mean; even NT's can have a burn out from work, if you add in sensitivity issues from being on the spectrum it probably increases that process. And such things; I'm not sure if that's a totally invalid reason to raise a white flag for.

Something I read on this forum the other day, and that might very much be related to this "white flag" notion; someone pointed out that people who got their diagnosis early in life might give up easier and contribute it to AS and thinking they can't do a thing and are unable to succeed. I'm not sure if we'd need equality for people that would actually live by the idea of "I have AS, I can't do anything". It would essentially pampering someone for being a special snowflake (and by all means; I don't even intend to use that word in a derogatory way here).

Lastly; something that just crossed my mind while typing this. Should/could/would everyone be able to recognize a substantial contribution? Who is to say that I'm not already giving 100%? For what it's worth I am, and going out of my way and still people think I'm not doing enough. Maybe i'm giving my best. And similarly, what if someone points out "I'm trying to meet you in the middle" but actually doesn't do a thing. Yes, you should call them out on it, but still, you would have to be able to recognize someone is not doing his part, just like people should be able to recognize that you are doing the best you can in your situation. And that requires a lot of objective insight I think a lot of people don't possess.

We have already HAD to bend over backwards to just survive in this NT dominated world. Most often we are EXPECTED to fall 100% in-line with the NT requirements when doing anything in society. There has been no "we will meet you half-way" attitude so far. It has been " you must do this because this is how it is done".

So now the talk is of some theoretical "compromise" where each side then gives a little more to meet in the middle?
Does not anyone else recognize the enormous imbalance that is our starting point here?
We do not call the shots. We are not the gate-keepers of society.
We can only continue to do our best by bending over backwards and trying to fall in line where possible.

In very general terms a "fair compromise" is when you end up getting half of something that you really want none of.
It also assumes that you started out at a fair and equal point to begin with, which I do not think is true in this case.

I think it true that most NTs, if faced with the proposition of making the same level of compromises that ASD folks already make, would find the situation completely unacceptable.

You make very strong points there, particularly the point about not starting on a level playing ground to begin with. I relate to your comment about having to bend over backwards. At no time can I remember receiving even half of the efforts I made in return from NTs. Not even one-tenth, in fact.

All that is true about us not starting "on a level playing field"--but we should educate, rather than be angry and stubborn about "giving ground."

The "NT's" aren't the enemy, and they are not diametrically opposed to autistics. Some "NT's," in fact, face some of the same challenges (though perhaps with less intensity) than we do.

The "NT's" didn't give us autism, either. They might exacerbate our autism at times through their actions. But we must educate, rather than seek revenge--rather than separate ourselves. Separating ourselves is harmful--it inspires those whom we separate from to dislike us, to seek to harm us.

We should be proactive with the "NT's" who seek to harm us; we have to defend ourselves. But, otherwise, if "NTs" aren't harming us, why should we dislike them because they are not autistic?

We should be angry at "NT's" when they harm us; we shouldn't be angry at them for being "NT's" and having the "advantage."

We have to take the higher moral ground in this.

I think it's more complicated than "you give some, I give some."

I used to have an AS friend who really did try. The problem was he didn't know or understand what he was meant to be trying to do, because he had no feel for it at all. So he'd behave in just the most awful, sometimes aggressive ways without having the faintest idea that he was doing anything wrong, and because there is no Handbook For the Spectrumite, no codifiable "do this and you're fine, don't do that", there was no helpful rule to give him. Apart from which he just didn't want to keep hearing how he'd screwed up again, he'd had too much of that over a lifetime.

The result for me was "if you want to be friends with him, just deal. Suck it up." The result for him was that no matter how hard he tried to avoid offense, there was no way to know where the danger zone was, and now and then people would come out and beat him with "you're a terrible person who's doing it wrong." Put the two together -- he's exhausted and demoralized, I'm periodically emotionally beaten up and can't take it anymore.

We're not friends anymore. I still miss him a lot, but I also know that if we were friends again it'd be more of the same. He'd ignore me until he wanted something, and then when he did want to talk or do something he might be in a good mood, or he might be full of complaints and saying rude or abusive things. I'd just get hurt again.

I'm not angry. I was objectively stating what my experience has been.

I wasn't saying that you were angry at all. Obviously, I respect personal experience--which could make people angry.

My post was directed more at people who are opposed to accommodating with NTs and separating themselves from them, like Maoris who separate themselves from the general society owing to them being Maori.

I think firstly it has to be recognised that everyone has their own problems in life. Everyone.

I'm in one of those horrible NT/AS marriages. I make plenty of concessions to communication with him and ask for very little in return. I do expect courtesy and decency. Just today he got extremely angry with me because I pointed out that his plans for today couldn't be carried out as he had planned (without consultation with me) because I had plans myself that I had put on the calendar some time ago. Instead of expressing disappointment and looking for another way to carry out those plans, he told my son that "Mommy isn't allowing us to go." He stormed out of the house without a word. He was incredibly rude to me.

Some of the concessions that we NT spouses are asking for are common decency, respect, and reminders that you are important. If you don't want to make concessions in communication no one is making you, but you can't expect that people will tolerate rude behaviour forever.

This would, in practice, tend to be somewhat mutual.
With many NT communication styles being counter-intuitive to an AS person.

I would agree with what the previous poster said.

While I understand your frustration with your marriage, previously covered in another thread fairly extensively, this thread is really addressing a much wider issue about the inequality of the expectations that ASD people meet NTs more than half way - look at the opening post again?

Anyway, I agree with whomever said they thought the answer to this question was more straightforward----as did I. I agree with the people who say that we ASDers have been putting-forth GREAT effort to meet the standards of NTs, and that NTs don't seem to put-forth alot of effort; BUT, I also agree with those that said something to the effect of "when in Rome.....".