From My Non-Atusim Perspective

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LOL, very entertaining to read. I would tell him to shut the f up and make the chocolate milk.

Don't coddle him. Sounds like he's just acting out and playing a game with you

Wow. I don't understand why other posters are telling you that you aren't patient enough and don't understand Asperger's. If the chocolate milk example is an accurate representation of how you interacted with this other person, you seem VERY patient to me. Most people would explode and/or give up much sooner over the obviously irrelevant sorts of questions this person was asking and the paranoid, repetitive whining about you thinking her stupid.

What I glean from your post is that this person is overly-focused on details, so focused that she is having trouble learning the actual lesson (and possibly further stymied by some sort of victim complex). She needs to learn to differentiate between what is important and what is incidental, and she might not be able to learn that from you. If you work with this person further (or anyone like her), I would suggest 3 strategies:

1. Remind her of the goal or purpose of the lesson at the beginning, and a few more times throughout.

2. Use language that emphasizes the generality of the steps so that she is less likely to assume something specific. For example, you might say that you pour any brand or flavor of desired chocolate syrup into the glass so that she won't assume that she must use some specific type of syrup.

3. This is what worked for me when I couldn't decide which details were important: watch the whole lesson first, writing down questions if there was a risk of forgetting them. Once I had the whole of the lesson in my mind, it was easier to fit the details together and decide which were important and which weren't. Then I only needed to ask about the details that were or might have been important.

Last edited by starkid on 29 Mar 2015, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's the subtle put downs and the 'you're dumb and I'm better' feeling of it that bothers me most..

I didn't get that from the OP at all. I thought reading into stuff was mainly an NT thing, but I'm seeing it over and over again on WP lately...I don't get it.

Mispelling "Asperger's" does not imply ignorance of Asperger's.

True, but it shows laziness since it could easily be looked up on Google to verify spelling. If that detail of information has been mangled in the OP's research, I would assume that the rest of her research on Asperger's was equally faulty. That doesn't mean that I think she's wrong or right on her assertion, but if one wants to be taken seriously on a subject they should do good research, which includes spelling the subject properly and not relying on South Park as a dictionary.

You assume way too much. This is a forum on which people are supposed to be understanding of cognitive difficulties and disabilities in general. OP's mispelling of a SINGLE WORD does not imply anything about her diligence in research. OP could be using voice-to-text software that messed up the spelling. OP could be on a tablet or smartphone that makes it difficult to go back and edit. OP could be sick/tired and not typing her best. OP could have tremors and accidentally hit other keys while typing.

There are members of this forum whose spelling (not to mention grammar and punctuation) is far worse than OP's; do you make unjustified assumptions about their academic skills as well? After all, they could look up proper spelling and grammar, too.

Because we're human so we also may read into things and having AS does not mean that we will always be literal so therefore we will never ever twist what someone says. I don't think anyone is 100% aspie.

What bothered me about the example the OP gave, and what made it feel to me as if she was being condescending to her friend, were her statements like, "You don't need to know that," "That would have been too much information for you," "That isn't important." In the example, the OP was making decisions for and assumptions about her friend. She was trying to be patient, but she was not trying to be understanding. She was trying to control, which does make a person feel like they are being treated like a child. If someone was explaining something to me, and I was trying to understand, and I asked a question that to me was important, and the reply given was, "You don't need to know that," I would be done with the task right then. They could very well do it themselves or shove it up their nether regions for all I cared. It isn't up to them to decide what I need to know and not need to know to understand something. I've had situations where I need a lot more information than the normal people to make sense of something. But then, once I understand it, I understand it really well and I can work out solutions to problems when they arise.
The friend might also be screwing with the OP because she doesn't feel like she is being respected. She could be acting extra fussy as a way to lash out. Sort of a "treat me like a baby, I'll be a baby" kind of thing. Just a guess, of course.
In any case, I have no excuse for the friend's attitude of not wanting to learn something new that is required for the job. Asperger's means we have to work harder, it is not an excuse to be lazy. It is not an excuse to sit back and say, "I can't do that, you'll have to make allowances for me." Sometimes there are things we cannot do and allowances must be made, but this is only in the most extreme circumstances. For example, if a sensory sensitivity makes a certain task completely unbearable, then allowances need to be made so the Aspie doesn't have to be in that situation. But if the sensory problem is uncomfortable but tolerable, then the Aspie has to work harder to tolerate it long enough to complete the task (and if this is a task that needs to be completed often or every day, then the Aspie needs to recognize that the job is not a good fit for them). "I can't" is not the same as "I don't want to," and for Aspies, this distinction is much clearer.

One of the claims of the OP is that she did research on Asperger's Syndrome, and yes, I do question that research if she can't even spell it correctly. Generally people that have done due diligence in their research like to display their knowledge, not look like fools when they use it. I've graded too many student papers to fall for the "oh it was just a typo or random mistake" excuse. If you didn't do actual research it shows, ask any teacher.

Also, the "oh maybe tired, keystroke, voice, whatever other BS insert here", that again IS laziness. If you want me to take a post seriously then put in the effort to make it serious and then we'll have a serious discussion. Make it look like a bad homework assignment from a 3rd grader and I'll treat it as such.

I would probably blow up at person #2 if I am forced to be around her, or if I am not forced to be around her, I would definitely avoid her as much as possible.

That's not the only spelling mistake the OP made, btw. The OP also misspelled "autism" as "atusim" in the thread title.

"From My Non-Atusim Perspective"
should be
"From My Non-Autism Perspective"
or perhaps even
"From My Non-Autistic Perspective"

In any case, "atusim" is not an English word to my knowledge.

And yes, I'm the spelling and grammar police in real life at my day job.

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This is solid advice worth repeating.

There is another recent thread here in General from the student's perspective called 'Do You Need Clear Instructions' which I also participated in.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=279129

(Note: I am using student/teacher in this thread just to mean anybody who is being taught something and anybody who is teaching something and do not mean to imply a school situation.)
Like the student in this thread, I also get sidetracked by details which turn out to be irrelevant and have been told by those teaching that "that's not important" and "you don't need to know that". The problem, as starkid says, is that I, like her don't know which details are important and which are not. I need all the steps given in detailed sequence and people do leave out steps but sometimes the information I request is actually not a step in the sequence and so people say (accurately) "you don't need to know that".

Unlike the student in this thread I can read people's body language and vocal tone and underlying meanings just fine. (And thus do not have an AS diagnosis since "needs incredibly detailed instructions" is not part of the diagnostic criteria.) This means I can tell when people are starting to feel 'done' with teaching me and I back off and make a note of which information I am still missing and need to fill in for myself later.

The thing is, once you are an adult, other adults have no obligation to make sure you fully understand something. They will just fire you (if they are your employer), arrest you or shoot you (if they are a cop who thinks you aren't following cop directions such as "drop the weapon") or avoid you (if an acquaintance or co-worker). Friends and relatives will go somewhat farther but still have limits and will either teach up to a limit or decline to teach entirely (as in the OP). The people who go farthest are hired tutors but since they charge by the hour, the limit is set by what you can afford to spend.

The only people who really have to make sure you fully get something are your parents when you are a kid. Any attempt by an adult student to try to make it the teacher's responsibility that they 'get' something will wind up being treated like a kid since parent/child is where that dynamic holds. The student has to take responsibility for learning (and the student in the OP unfortunately didn't). Starkid outlines how to do that. I act on what starkid advises when I am the student. I had just never seen it spelled out so explicitly before.



When I am the student I always start by asking 'so what exactly are you showing me?' This prompts the teacher to condense the goal down to a sentence and also nudges them to repeat that sentence if I start to stray during the lesson.




I ask for these generalities upfront so the teacher won't have to guess that's what I need and then become exasperated.




Yes! When somebody is about to teach me something I always say "can I just watch you do it once yourself and then walk me through it".

If I am still missing information after the lesson is complete and the person is giving off signals that they are 'done' with teaching me, I go to alternate sources of information. This may be coworkers (to whom I ask one single question and never ask for a whole new lesson) or internet/manuals.

If you learn in a way that is significantly different from how many others learn, you have to take responsibility for that instead of trying to make others responsible for it. They will just give up and avoid you or fire you. The sad thing that will probably happen soon in the OP's situation is she will just give up (has almost given up now) and her friend will lose a friend and never truly understand why. But this friend has not taken responsibility for her personal learning style and has tried to make it the responsibility of others and that is going very badly for her.

Even if you don't read body language/vocal tone/meaning and so don't know when somebody is about to blow up and refuse to teach any further, just being proactive with starkid's advice is important. That way, people are less likely to blow up in the first place.

I have pretty much backed off trying to get things and asking lot of questions because I know that upsets lot of people including aspies. I am thankful my parents took their time of energy answering all my questions and explaining things to me before I become an adult so I have experience and learn. Maybe the OP's friend didn't have parents who answered all her questions growing up or she never came up with a strategy. This is why this is a disability because lot of bosses won't have patience for it and will fire you as Janissy said because you are too time consuming for them and can;t do your job and they don't have the time to answer every little question and give you very little detail, especially if their answer isn't goo enough for you like the OP's friend. I see even an NT can have this issue too because Janissy is NT. I have learned to filter out stuff like why must that measuring cup be used, why must this chemical be used, why must the trash be emptied everyday even when it's not full bla bla bla. If I want to know, I can still ask but even if I don't get my answer, I still do it. I will also ask different people about the same thing to try and get something so that way I am not annoying anyone. I do better when I watch someone and they follow me through with something like the OP was trying to do with her friend. But I would have waited to ask questions at the end.

BTW I make chocolate milk differently than the OP. I use any cup I want to drink out of and pour milk in it and it could be fat free or 2% or whole milk since that is the milk we always get. Then I take out the Hershey's chocolate syrup and pour some in and it doesn't matter how much I pour in and then I take out a spoon I use to eat with and stir it until the milk is all chocolate. I watched people do it that way. I don't really read the directions on the bottle.

Then put it in the microwave. I am going to try this and see how it turns out... wait were you being sarcastic... anyway, I'm going to try it with dark chocolate. I'm salivating now...

Glad you like my recipe, hurloam!

I was being good-naturedly mischievous. That said, this kind of chocolate milk sounds like something I would actually try, and your addition of the microwave makes it sound even better!

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