Trying to talk normally to NTs

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Fair enough. I can acknowledge that there is a difference on some level between consensual, non-malicious violence (e.g., boxing, fencing, MMA, etc.) and non-consensual, malicious violence (e.g., standard schoolyard bullying, ridicule and put-downs from family members and co-workers). I'm going to a deeper level of the motivation, though.

I guess my point in this reply is that I feel like the reason most people watch contact sports isn't to appreciate the technical aspects of them. For the most part, they watch for the emotional charge of what are perceived as violent acts. I say this as someone who has boxed, fenced, wrestled, and trained in martial arts. And I went to a military school.

There's a reason that sports like boxing and judo are required in military training where sports that are equally technical and require prowess are not taught. There's a greater correlation between them and combat. I'm not against contact sports for people who want to be involved in them. I'm just trying to point out the underlying aggression and violence that causes tens of thousands of people to fill stadiums to watch them, instead of crowding stadiums to see two guys who are just sparring.

If the sport is just for the technical aspects and prowess and exercise, then why go beyond sparring? Because people want to see who is best. So in a match, there actually is an argument. It may not be overtly malicious, but it is covertly malicious. One of them wants to come out on top. Regardless of whether it's a boxing match, or a Stanley Cup final, even a match that appears to be a consensual, malice-free sporting contest still contains a deep level of adversarial aggression and malice. That's the violence I see.

The only consent is the fact that the challenger is the one I have to go into the ring to beat in order to be crowned champ. If humans weren't somehow hard-wired to violence and aggression, I just don't think these contests would have the appeal they do now. Society has tried to civilize something that is innately combative and violent.

And getting back to graduate122's situation, I see that as part of the motivation for the put-downs from his cousin. And from what I've seen, people have more respect for people who take a more combative, aggressive position, than those who are shrinking and conciliatory, even just in everyday situations.

And that's where it seems that NT's are hard-wired not to just act aggressively, but also to expect and respect aggression in others. And conversely, to denigrate those who don't. That lack of ability or desire to stand up for oneself is the red-flag to the bully that you'd make a great target. And one way to stop being perceived as that target, oddly enough, is training in contact sports and self-defense techniques. I know it's helped me.

This is a good point. And good for you for attempting to assist, but it may be they're just an energy drain. It took me a long time to understand the motivation for a person to constantly be complaining and provoking arguments. And it may be another factor in the OP's situation. Some people who don't want to be happy themselves will try to pull others down if they seem happy, content, or successful. Some call them energy vampires. But even underlying that, I can see the reason as related to wanting to be in a superior position, and climbing to higher status. To claim someone else's power. Why does the person not want you happy? Because that is perceived as being above the one who is not happy or satisfied, in a more powerful position, and they don't want you above them or more powerful than them.

Some people have an operating belief that they shouldn't be or aren't allowed to be happy or successful. But that's something they have to want to work on themselves. In the meantime, you have to decide the risk-to-reward ratio of being around them.

NT: Hey Max (Lets say my name is Max)

Me: Hey

NT: So how you going?

Me: Good and you? (Took my a while to get used to the last 2 words)

NT: What you're doing

Me: I'm talking to you

NT: But what were you doing before?

Me: Playing something on my pc.

NT: Playing what?

Me: Something now stop bothering me...

NT: Fine, lets change subject.

Me: kk

[Awkward silence]

NT: Have you heard about [Insert anything here]?

Me: Yeah

True to some extent. While I may not choose to play the hierarchy game in devising options for dealing with it, it still offers something in the way of devising a response that will be effective in the world they understand. For me, the success I've had has come as a result of using this as a model for the motivations of the others involved, whereas before I was just left wondering what just happened. In that way, I find it useful, and it took me a while to understand how relevant the perspective actually is.


Maybe on some level it is something people choose to buy into. I think this is largely part of the way they're wired. That may be part of where the innate understanding comes from that the NT has of life, of things they seem to just know that blow by us. They understand that being on this planet is about competition, and aggression is part of making claim to place here, getting what you want instead of being ignored and marginalized.

And they attach to those ideas and seek to comprehend them in practical ways that I know I just dismissed because they didn't seem relevant. The people with ASD who just think everyone is out to help everyone else is going to get steamrollered unless they realize the game being played around them. There may be those who choose to act less on the aggression, though, and those are the people I choose to be around.

Ha! Love that! Is this person normally adversarial or is it someone who has your best interests and heart and you want to cultivate friendship with?

Its a preppy kid at school who tries to communicate at school but he's really anoying because he tries to "sympathise" with me and ask me if my parents beat me up and telling me stuff like "ask me if you want to confide to someone"

Sounds like he might a predator or an energy vampire. They'll take advantage of people who they perceive as less socially adept. Are you a girl and he's possibly attracted to you? Is there a supportive community around you at school who can back you up?

No I'm a guy he's just trying to act friendly and empathising but I hate people who do that to me.

"You wanna play The Dozens? Well, The Dozens is a game - but the way I f**k your mother is a g*d*mn shame." - George Carlin

Insulting each other is an ancient NT tradition, especially among adolescent males - like the ones that hump yo Mama.

You said "stop bothering me" and then he kept talking and you responded. That's a mixed message. If it were me, unless you're creative and talkative enough to take control of the conversation and actively direct it to your advantage, I'd send the message you intend him to get, and then keep repeating it. If he starts being aggressively intrusive, then you may need to develop another approach, which is why I asked about the support system.

Hello Voleregard,

This is my first post, but I felt the need to register after seeing this post. I've been "lurking" here recently, as someone who is undiagnosed but feels strongly they may have Asperger's.

Anyway, the reason I post is that one thing I've felt for sometime is that I view myself more as a mind than a body. I enjoy physical things, but I feel that I probably see a larger disconnect between my mind and body than those that are termed NTs see. I don't know if anyone here would agree with me, but I'm curious, and I mention this only because I wonder if it is easier for an NT to get gratification from physical aggression (and physical activity). For example, while I enjoy physical affection, I most often use music to experience those feelings. Music, to me, is like being caressed. Being absorbed in a song can be like a sexual experience, even though I do enjoy sex a lot with someone I trust (I do have a hard time reading expressions/gestures/tone of voice, though I've had to learn to adapt/"fake" this from an early age). Information and ideas can be as powerful for me as I think sport is for most people. I often feel like my head is a gymnasium or theater, with so much going on, even though my preferred mode physically would be minimal expression and movement. If I'm at a concert, I don't dance and don't show much reaction, except clapping to be polite and show appreciation. Performers hate this, but I don't think they (or most people) realize that inside your head you are having the equivalent of a religious experience. Does this make sense? I'm happy to clarify, and worry I'm throwing too personal an observation out there as a first post, but since my reflection on this topic recently related to your post I felt I should participate.

Hey HighLlama,

I can relate. I'm creating a separate thread to continue: Intellectualized Experience of Exterior World at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=280058#p6566188

The adage "know your enemy" suggests you could be right. Do you have any examples of how you've successfully applied the aforementioned global explanation to problems with individuals? I'm also wondering how the OP might use the theory to his advantage.


Yes the jury's still out on whether or not we actually have any free choice. I'm not sure whether competitive behaviour correlates well with neurotypicality though. I've often felt that the human race in general doesn't quite know whether to be competitive or co-operative, and that the two traits exist in more or less equal measure in any individual. Having said that, I seem much more suspicious than most of people in general, especially the "Great and Good," and I'm very unlikely to lose out by having too much faith in the caring, co-operative side of the human race. I always feel some regret that I'm so cynical, and I believe it prevents me from taking reasonable risks.


I suppose a mind-blind Aspie might take longer than most to lose the naivete of childhood. But looking back, I was pretty quick to recognise bastards when I was subjected to them. I don't think there were any at my first school, neither kids nor teachers, but every time I went to a new school, there was a greater proportion of such people. I naively thought it would be better with jobs, but I soon realised it was even worse. What astonishes me the most nowadays is that laws are sometimes passed that seem to be attempting to protect the vulnerable and downtrodden, almost as if the politicians cared about us. Is it never genuine?