Passive aggressiveness...that is unconscious?

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btbnnyr
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25 May 2015, 1:14 pm

When people are familiar or close, they drop many of the polite social conventions and are more willing to communicate bluntly with each other, but that is not passive aggressiveness, and I consider it a positive rather than negative, I don't want to deal with fake niceties from people close to me.


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KaylamiYarne
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25 May 2015, 1:18 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
When people are familiar or close, they drop many of the polite social conventions and are more willing to communicate bluntly with each other, but that is not passive aggressiveness, and I consider it a positive rather than negative, I don't want to deal with fake niceties from people close to me.


Well, I'm okay with bluntness, but I see a lot of times it's almost like people get some sort of cruel pleasure out of passive-aggressively insulting their partners' characters :/



rarebit
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25 May 2015, 1:29 pm

KaylamiYarne wrote:
.. but I see a lot of times it's almost like people get some sort of cruel pleasure out of passive-aggressively insulting their partners' characters :/


Doesn't this constitute the majority of comedy nowadays? (esp. sitcoms, soap operas, etc)



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25 May 2015, 1:35 pm

rarebit wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
.. but I see a lot of times it's almost like people get some sort of cruel pleasure out of passive-aggressively insulting their partners' characters :/


Doesn't this constitute the majority of comedy nowadays? (esp. sitcoms, soap operas, etc)


Haha..I rarely watch soap operas and sitcoms but I wouldn't be surprised :P The first thing that came to mind was IT Crowd but I don't remember passive aggressiveness though that's probably because the main characters were definitely not neurotypical >.<



btbnnyr
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25 May 2015, 1:38 pm

Close people often insult each other, it's not really a passive aggressive thing, more of a we are close and know each other really well including each other's foibles thing.


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justkillingtime
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25 May 2015, 1:40 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Close people often insult each other, it's not really a passive aggressive thing, more of a we are close and know each other really well including each other's foibles thing.


In that case, are people's feelings hurt or is it considered constructive criticism?


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btbnnyr
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25 May 2015, 1:42 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Close people often insult each other, it's not really a passive aggressive thing, more of a we are close and know each other really well including each other's foibles thing.


In that case, are people's feelings hurt or is it considered constructive criticism?


Neither, it's often jokingly insulting each other.
Or if two people get angry at each other, they might point out each other's annoying habits.


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rarebit
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25 May 2015, 1:53 pm

KaylamiYarne wrote:
rarebit wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
.. but I see a lot of times it's almost like people get some sort of cruel pleasure out of passive-aggressively insulting their partners' characters :/


Doesn't this constitute the majority of comedy nowadays? (esp. sitcoms, soap operas, etc)


Haha..I rarely watch soap operas and sitcoms but I wouldn't be surprised :P The first thing that came to mind was IT Crowd but I don't remember passive aggressiveness though that's probably because the main characters were definitely not neurotypical >.<



Not even the beardy one or Jen? Or the boss man?

From wiki:
Quote:
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.

For research purposes, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) revision IV describes passive-aggressive personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in social and occupational situations".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-ag ... e_behavior

The second part makes me think of every manager / boss I've ever met! Its in the job description.

Taking it to the extreme, any ultimatum or reminder of deadline is an indirect expression of hostility or opposition.

Also from the examples given, even Moss is quite a bit of the time!

Great book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eight-Character ... ref=sr_1_1?



Amity
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25 May 2015, 1:59 pm

Dianthus I have thought about this type of attitude especially with close relations.

This girl irritated me in many ways, and I found myself being quite negative towards her; but there was nothing obvious that irritated me, and it became more and more difficult to even be polite to her.
One day it dawned on me why I was feeling this way, she reminded me, of a younger me, and had an outlook that was similar to one I held in my teenage years. I stopped feeling negatively about her, she was not annoying me, it wasnt her issues fueling the passive aggression, she was reminding me of my unresolved issues.



BirdInFlight
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25 May 2015, 2:07 pm

rarebit wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
It could unconscious passive aggressiveness towards you from others, or it could be you processing others actions and words into perceived passive aggressiveness towards you.



Again, where's the like button?




Oh here we go, with the "You don't really correctly perceive what's happening to you."

Guess what? Despite the spectrum making it hard to read people, sometimes, just sometimes, some of us DO correctly know exactly what some schmuck is trying to do to us. Just once in a while it's not all just in our heads.



KaylamiYarne
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25 May 2015, 2:12 pm

rarebit wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
rarebit wrote:
KaylamiYarne wrote:
.. but I see a lot of times it's almost like people get some sort of cruel pleasure out of passive-aggressively insulting their partners' characters :/


Doesn't this constitute the majority of comedy nowadays? (esp. sitcoms, soap operas, etc)


Haha..I rarely watch soap operas and sitcoms but I wouldn't be surprised :P The first thing that came to mind was IT Crowd but I don't remember passive aggressiveness though that's probably because the main characters were definitely not neurotypical >.<



Not even the beardy one or Jen? Or the boss man?

From wiki:
Quote:
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.

For research purposes, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) revision IV describes passive-aggressive personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in social and occupational situations".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-ag ... e_behavior

The second part makes me think of every manager / boss I've ever met! Its in the job description.

Taking it to the extreme, any ultimatum or reminder of deadline is an indirect expression of hostility or opposition.

Also from the examples given, even Moss is quite a bit of the time!

Great book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eight-Character ... ref=sr_1_1?


Aaahhhh I need to watch it again now. Maybe the reason I relate to Moss so much is because he's clueless about the intentions of others :lol:
I haven't watched the series in a few years; I need to watch it again with what you've said in mind.



btbnnyr
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25 May 2015, 2:16 pm

It is impossible for me to tell from others' descriptions whether something is made up or overblown in their heads, esp. if there is no eggsample. Even with eggsamples, people often describe situations in ways biased towards what they already perceived and judged to be the case in that situation, so it is generally still hard to tell.


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rarebit
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25 May 2015, 2:18 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
rarebit wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
It could unconscious passive aggressiveness towards you from others, or it could be you processing others actions and words into perceived passive aggressiveness towards you.



Again, where's the like button?




Oh here we go, with the "You don't really correctly perceive what's happening to you."

Guess what? Despite the spectrum making it hard to read people, sometimes, just sometimes, some of us DO correctly know exactly what some schmuck is trying to do to us. Just once in a while it's not all just in our heads.



All types of people fall into this trap, its not a me and you thing!

Its semiotics, it was first put to me in a philosophy book using the terms of "signifier and signified". The same expression can mean different things to different people, even to the same people at different times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_%28semiotics%29



rarebit
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25 May 2015, 2:21 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
Oh here we go, with the "You don't really correctly perceive what's happening to you."

Guess what? Despite the spectrum making it hard to read people, sometimes, just sometimes, some of us DO correctly know exactly what some schmuck is trying to do to us. Just once in a while it's not all just in our heads.



Is that passive aggressive, plain aggressive or just me feeling some kind of confused by it?

Did you just call me a schmuck, A.K.A. stupid?



BirdInFlight
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25 May 2015, 2:28 pm

But when you start thinking that way about another person's experience, isn't it a bit invalidating of them? Not everyone all the time perceives things wrongly, even on the spectrum.

I've seen a discussion elsewhere (another site) in which everyone was arguing about perception and memory and reality, and basically one person was opining that those three more or less never have anything to do with each other. So he was basically saying that nothing anyone remembers about anything or perceives about any situation can ever be the truth or accurate.

I call bullsh!t on that stance. Because, although research does indeed show that human perception and recollection can be flawed and colored by many factors, research has also shown that people do have a capacity for not just putting everything through a filter of their own perception.

Sometimes something is exactly as it seemed. Sometimes someone is being a passive aggressive ass and the "victim" is correct in knowing what's happening.

I think it's deeply invalidating to always say to someone "Well I don't know what really happened so I'm going to reserve judgment because YOU might be wrong about the whole thing."

That's really insulting. I give people the benefit of the doubt. If someone says someone wronged them and they've figured out it was not in fact accidental, I will believe it and respect what they are relaying to me unless or until there is evidence that are deluded.

The opposite approach reminds me of the bad old days when women were not believe if they reported they were raped. Or children not believed if they spoke up about molestation.

In my own case I know my so-called friend and I know exactly what he was doing. What you think about that is immaterial, because you weren't there, don't know him, and don't know me. So how can you form an opinion that I may or may not be incorrect? You just have to take my word for it unless some other information comes along directly associated with the incident.



rarebit
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25 May 2015, 2:35 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
But when you start thinking that way about another person's experience, isn't it a bit invalidating of them? Not everyone all the time perceives things wrongly, even on the spectrum.

I've seen a discussion elsewhere (another site) in which everyone was arguing about perception and memory and reality, and basically one person was opining that those three more or less never have anything to do with each other. So he was basically saying that nothing anyone remembers about anything or perceives about any situation can ever be the truth or accurate.

I call bullsh!t on that stance. Because, although research does indeed show that human perception and recollection can be flawed and colored by many factors, research has also shown that people do have a capacity for not just putting everything through a filter of their own perception.

Sometimes something is exactly as it seemed. Sometimes someone is being a passive aggressive ass and the "victim" is correct in knowing what's happening.

I think it's deeply invalidating to always say to someone "Well I don't know what really happened so I'm going to reserve judgment because YOU might be wrong about the whole thing."

That's really insulting. I give people the benefit of the doubt. If someone says someone wronged them and they've figured out it was not in fact accidental, I will believe it and respect what they are relaying to me unless or until there is evidence that are deluded.

The opposite approach reminds me of the bad old days when women were not believe if they reported they were raped. Or children not believed if they spoke up about molestation.

In my own case I know my so-called friend and I know exactly what he was doing. What you think about that is immaterial, because you weren't there, don't know him, and don't know me. So how can you form an opinion that I may or may not be incorrect? You just have to take my word for it unless some other information comes along directly associated with the incident.



In your OP, you give numerous examples, hence making this a generic topic and not a specific one.

No one but you has stated absolutes!

I'm coming to the conclusion that you may actually be misinterpreting things due to the facts I see of your behaviour here, wild accusations, name calling, aggression, rants, etc...Go figure :roll:

* Oh, I only put the rolling eyes since you sarcastically used them on me :D